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Thread: Now that don't ask-dont' tell is over

  1. #41
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charly_t View Post
    Yep, when I was growing up "gay" was not used in reference to homosexuals.
    Trying to "sugar coat" ( no pun intended ) it does nothing to help their cause. They were "fairies" or "queers" back then........not that I think either of those terms fit either.
    I went to HS with twin girls named Joy and Gay Irgang.
    Both of them were the nicest people I have ever met.

    Whenever I hear the term "Gay" in it's current context, I wonder why??

    They are homosexuals by definition.
    And there is little "gay" about them, by definition.


    Oh well.......

    RK
    Last edited by road kill; 09-21-2011 at 05:52 PM.
    Stan b & Elvis

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terri View Post
    I'm not and have not served my country, but me dad and both grandpas served. I always dreamed of marrying a pig farmer after my military police officer career, but neither dream came true.

    Just a question for the guys who have been in the military or are still serving: Do you admit that gay people have been in the military from the beginning of time? Do you like the do not tell policy? If both of these two questions are answered with a yes, then what is going to happen if the gay men come out of the military closet? Do you think the gays will be free to jump on you without worry of punishment? What is the fear?
    If you tell me there has never been gays in the military and that you do not support gays in the military I can understand you not wanting a policy that allows gays in the military, period. I believe my dad and grandpas did not believe that any gay man would survive the military. None of them are alive today, but even if they were I wonder if anyone could convince them to accept a gay man as fit for duty. They did not have sensitivity training back in the day.
    I just do not understand what mind game you are playing with yourself by saying as long as they stay in the closet it is all good.

    Now how do you feel about gay women - on a personal level and also serving in the military? I usually see that most men have no problem with the women and some like it a bit too much for my comfort level.

    Just some things to think about.
    Terri
    Terri, I don't think you and I will ever understand this. It's a male thing. Hubby used to come home "P Oed" because a male office worker in his dept. had touched him on the shoulder. He was sure the guy was coming onto him
    and it affected my husband's work that day you bet. I can undrstand how it might be in the military under those same circumstances. It's just not the same with we women.

  3. #43
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody Covey View Post
    Don't your wife and children get health care and base housing....if you don't want them to be a special class of citizen then don't you think...like you said in your post that they deserve the same rights? I just don't see the big deal...they have always been in the military what makes all you guys think it's going to be different now? It will still be against the rules for any show of affection on base. The only argument I have heard that has any real merit and makes me seriously wonder is about the separate barracks. How can they say men and women must sleep in separate barracks but gay men can sleep in the same barracks as other men.
    That's what I mean about it never ending. First they want to be acknowledged as being gay...ok. Now, you are talking about living quarters etc... definition of marriage... It's a whole new level to the discussion. But really it's the same discussion, that keeps chipping away...

    My wife and kids do not get health care and base housing... I am not in the military anymore. Many moons ago.
    Bill Davis

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    That's what I mean about it never ending. First they want to be acknowledged as being gay...ok. Now, you are talking about living quarters etc... definition of marriage... It's a whole new level to the discussion. But really it's the same discussion, that keeps chipping away...

    My wife and kids do not get health care and base housing... I am not in the military anymore. Many moons ago.
    I know I am takling about when you were in as well as those in now. Their wife and children are offered housing on base. If you want true equality don't you think gays should have the same rights why shouldn't that actually BE the SAME rights?

  5. #45
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody Covey View Post
    I know I am takling about when you were in as well as those in now. Their wife and children are offered housing on base. If you want true equality don't you think gays should have the same rights why shouldn't that actually BE the SAME rights?
    there is a lot more at stake than housing....we're talking possible survivor benefits,pensions,base priviliges...which could all go out the window if they ever draft a definition of marriage act....military benefits are HUGE...it helped my family,even after my dad passed away..its actually helping to pay my mom's medications at the nursing home...
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    there is a lot more at stake than housing....we're talking possible survivor benefits,pensions,base priviliges...which could all go out the window if they ever draft a definition of marriage act....military benefits are HUGE...it helped my family,even after my dad passed away..its actually helping to pay my mom's medications at the nursing home...
    So you believe homosexual's should have special rights? Either everyone should have the ability for their significant other to have housing health care and other benefits or no one should. Why in the world do you think homosexual's should have special rights?

  7. #47
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Maybe if some of you ever had to "saddle up," knowing full well that this day will likely be your last, you would see things a tad differently.
    ( I pray that never happens)

    The military is not Fedex or Toys R Us or Sears.

    It is a different animal with different rules for a reason.
    It is NOT a democracy, it is NOT fair it is NOT a social test tube.

    The good of the command or unit or troop comes ahead of the individuals personal issues.
    The needs of the service come before the wants of the few.

    When that breaks down, people die.

    Not every service member faces combat, but you never know that for certain when you enter.

    I must bow out of this now, because I have been through a couple things many of you would not beleive or understand.

    I KNOW what I KNOW!

    You FEEL what you FEEL!

    Big difference.


    PEACE!!!!


    RK
    Last edited by road kill; 09-21-2011 at 06:28 PM.
    Stan b & Elvis

  8. #48
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody Covey View Post
    So you believe homosexual's should have special rights? Either everyone should have the ability for their significant other to have housing health care and other benefits or no one should. Why in the world do you think homosexual's should have special rights?
    what rules applies in the military doesnt apply in the real world..my nephew and his partner have a civil union in Mass.(dont have a problem there)...but the military is not a democracy...you cant just leave and check out if you want..when you sign up you give up a LOT of rights and freedoms, and IMHO you give up the right to have a civil union with your lifestyle partner...you want to do that, get out of the military...after all you and I are paying for their salary...I am not a big fan of females in combat either,because of the brutalities of war..I read my dad's memoirs and the brutality of the enemy toward male combatants,could not imagine what they would have done to females...

    Homosexuals dont deserve any special rights anymore than you and I deserve special rights...but the UCMJ is not the Bill of Rights..for the military to operate efficiently certain practices must be done, they may not seem "fair or right" but war isnt fair,either you kill the enemy or they kill you..no such thing as the Geneva convention in war
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    what rules applies in the military doesnt apply in the real world..my nephew and his partner have a civil union in Mass.(dont have a problem there)...but the military is not a democracy...you cant just leave and check out if you want..when you sign up you give up a LOT of rights and freedoms, and IMHO you give up the right to have a civil union with your lifestyle partner...you want to do that, get out of the military...after all you and I are paying for their salary...I am not a big fan of females in combat either,because of the brutalities of war..I read my dad's memoirs and the brutality of the enemy toward male combatants,could not imagine what they would have done to females...

    Homosexuals dont deserve any special rights anymore than you and I deserve special rights...but the UCMJ is not the Bill of Rights..for the military to operate efficiently certain practices must be done, they may not seem "fair or right" but war isnt fair,either you kill the enemy or they kill you..no such thing as the Geneva convention in war
    I am not arguing for or against DADT here. You and RK are right that the military is not a democracy and should be run with only the efficiency and safety of the troops in mind. I have said that earlier in this post already. The situation was reviewed and deemed to not be a factor in safety or efficiency. With that said you are saying that the ability to have health care is going to affect the safety of the troops? I am asking you how so. If i were in the military how would I be less safe because a homosexual has the same rights as me. If you are able to explain that to me than maybe I'll understand. As it sits now you are using "safety" as a cop out.

    For the record...I personally think that the troops are if anything less safe without DADT in place. I just htink that since it's not there anymore than homosexuals should be given the same rights to the benefits as heterosexuals are afforded. This is absolutely no different than separate but equal. Do you believe black wives don't deserve the same benefits as whites? I would argue that at the time that was a big issue the safety of troops were in fact GREATLY put at risk because of the general sentiment of whites towards blacks at that time.

  10. #50
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody Covey View Post
    I am not arguing for or against DADT here. You and RK are right that the military is not a democracy and should be run with only the efficiency and safety of the troops in mind. I have said that earlier in this post already. The situation was reviewed and deemed to not be a factor in safety or efficiency. With that said you are saying that the ability to have health care is going to affect the safety of the troops? I am asking you how so. If i were in the military how would I be less safe because a homosexual has the same rights as me. If you are able to explain that to me than maybe I'll understand. As it sits now you are using "safety" as a cop out.

    For the record...I personally think that the troops are if anything less safe without DADT in place. I just htink that since it's not there anymore than homosexuals should be given the same rights to the benefits as heterosexuals are afforded. This is absolutely no different than separate but equal. Do you believe black wives don't deserve the same benefits as whites? I would argue that at the time that was a big issue the safety of troops were in fact GREATLY put at risk because of the general sentiment of whites towards blacks at that time.
    now dont go putting words in my mouth..or reading something else in my posts...never said anything about their safety....but what is does do is strike at the heart of the military way of doing things, the mere fact that it makes some personnel unsure and uncomfortable makes for disharmony among the ranks...I am basing my opinion on my personal experience on how I believe the military runs, not on being in the military(I was not), maybe I am part dinosaur in that thinking...one of the reasons I started this thread..the arguments you present for equality are all valid and just..for everyday life and the public, all I'm saying is that those same rules dont apply in the military (at least in the military I know)
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

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