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Thread: Ichthyosis in Goldens

  1. #21
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    Gerry, do you know if they will offer discounted testing at the GRCA national for just the PRA1 and ICT? Some of the dogs will have already been tested for prcd-PRA.
    Thanks

    Barb Gibson
    with
    CH Rosewood Little Giant UDX VER RA SH MXP MJP OFP VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG
    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"
    www.GoTeamTito.com

  2. #22
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    When Optigen testing is available at the National Specialty, the clinic discounts work the same as always ... if you do more than one test, you get 45% discount. You DO NOT have to do all 3 to get a multiple-test discount.

    So, with a clinic discount for those two tests, the cost is around $133. The regular price for ICT only would be $114. Thus, you get the PRA1 test for only about $30 more. That's quite a good deal.

    And, if the dog has already been tested for prcd, then you just have to order the new tests ... don't even have to send in a new sample.

    There are some people with "clear by parentage" dogs that can also take advantage on a special price for prcd testing of such dogs. If both parents were tested by Optigen as clear, you can check offspring for just $95. Only gets the online discount of 5%, so about $90. (Of course they have no sample for that dog, so you DO have to send a sample). Since that pricing is already more than 50% of the regular price, they don't offer a clinic discount for that. But if you do it at the National Spec, you do save on blood draw and shipping.

    Why would we do this? First, because "clear by parentage" is only accepted generally for one generation. Second, for those who question the accuracy of the test (a question raised before by some), it can confirm that the original testing of the parents was accurate.

    Probably more useful for stud dogs, and there are a couple of stud dog owners who have used this particular discount.

    I'm wondering if they will come out with a similar "deal" for the other tests? However, Optigen doesn't "own" those other tests as they do the prcd test; so such a decision would be up to AHT or Antagene.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  3. #23
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    Thanks Gerry, good information.

    Barb Gibson
    with
    CH Rosewood Little Giant UDX VER RA SH MXP MJP OFP VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG
    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"
    www.GoTeamTito.com

  4. #24
    Senior Member Sue Kiefer's Avatar
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    Gerry clear your PM's.
    Sue
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Just use my regular email address in my signature.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Sue Kiefer's Avatar
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    Glenda,
    The essential oils are such an oil base. They shouldn't simply just wash away by swimming. But "IF" you should chose to bathe your dog the doggy shampoo will dissolve the oils and will wash away.


    tzappia,
    I haven't yet seen a "Proper" diet control the icty. But adding amega 3's and other fatty acids don't hurt.I can say that over the yrs. the general public "IS" feeding their pets better foods. Rarely do I see at my boarding kennel (generic-type foods).
    The disease is there it always will be. it is more of a pain when you have puppies ready to go home because they are small and cute and their little bodies are changing daily and the more you brush the worse it seems to be ,new owners want that "Perfect" golden and and and................

    I also have NOT seen discomfort,hardening of the skin or hair loss. I do like the essential oils. It makes the whole house smell nice too.
    Sue
    Never confuse activity with success.

    "Ummmmmmm Isn't a word." Judge Judy

  7. #27
    Senior Member Erin Lynes's Avatar
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    Does anyone have a photo of an affected puppy?
    Google search shows humans affected with this condition
    Erin Lynes
    Eromit Labrador Retrievers

    Home of:
    Twig AGDC, Ruger JH MGDC SGDC, Winchester SGDC RNCL, Shelby RNCL, Spider, Beretta SGDC, Kimber, Verona, Missie, Jackie, Victor RNCL, Jet and Glitzy
    ..........gone but never forgotten, the gal who started it all: Spider's Sunshine MSDC MSCDC AADC AGDC NAC NGC NJC (Nestle) ...........

  8. #28
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Haven't seen any photos of affected pups, but on another list someone had posted a photo of an adult with significant flaking.

    The dog was standing on a grooming table & that amount of "dandruff" on the table was like he was standing in a light snowfall. I was really surprised by the large amount of flakes ... the dog had apparently just been brushed.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

  9. #29
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    I know this is an older thread....someone on another forum asked if anyone knows the proper dose of fish oil for an affected dog who has pretty bad flaking?? Any ideas?

    Barb Gibson
    with
    CH Rosewood Little Giant UDX VER RA SH MXP MJP OFP VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG
    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"
    www.GoTeamTito.com

  10. #30
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Glad you "resurrected" this thread, Barb.

    Antagene has explained that the fish oils can help because ICT is a problem with the lipid process ... so adding oils can help. However, it is not certain that this will help all dogs, but it might help some. So, you'll probably be using trial-and-error to find out what dosage works for each individual dog.

    I'm not certain, but I think that these fish oils are also blood thinners. If so, then if you have a surgical procedure scheduled for such a dog, you may want to discontinue the oils for a period of time prior to surgery or teeth cleaning. Ask your vet about this.

    On other lists, the question of affected dogs included the mention of the flakes being large, being hyper-pigmented (black), and there being an odor associated with the condition. Due to the poor skin condition, secondary bacterial infections could present a problem as well from a maintenance standpoint.

    It would be really helpful if people would share more first-hand experiences with affected dogs. There have been some breedings done of carrXcarr; carrXaffected; and even affXaff dogs. Some intentional, some when people were unaware of the testing available & unsuspecting that the disease might be present. Easy to do when some dogs are affected and have no apparent symptoms!

    My sense is that most people do not see ICT as any significant quality of life issue ... and at this point, I tend to agree with them. But (there's always a "but", isn't there?) what if we're not right about that? The data gained from these CxC, CxA, and AxA breedings could be very helpful in letting us know whether we can "relax" in regard to this particular disease or should be more conscious of breeding affected dogs.


    Based on Antagene's statistics thru 7/31/1, we have almost 50% of US/Can Goldens (of those tested) who are carriers or affected ... so we don't have an over-abundant supply of dogs who have no copy of the mutated gene. If practical experience shows this disease to be more troublesome than it appears now, then we will want to hold ground and preserve a reservoir of "clear" dogs to breed to carriers and affecteds.

    With prcd, even at our worst, we were running about 20% carriers, and very few affected. We had (and continue to have) a large reservoir of dogs with no copy of the mutated gene ... plenty of dogs to breed to carriers or affected with safety. We could effectively "manage" the disease very well and maintain a majority of clear dogs in the gene pool (while still breeding carriers that have merit in other respects).

    I recently bred a 3-clear bitch to a carrier sire for both prcd and ICT ... all 3 bitch puppies came up clear for prcd! I could hardly believe that. However, on ICT only one of the bitch pups was clear for that as well. Yet, there are still the hips, elbows to worry about. And, then we still have to evaluate which of those three girls might have the most merit for reproducing ... based on the other traits that we seek in our breeding programs. We'll still have to apply the "art" of breeding to the "science" of DNA (& other health) testing.

    But we still need to know what the real-life data is to make reasonable decisions for breeding.

    BTW, two of the dogs who tested affected for prcd as youngsters, are now about 6 years old. So far they both have normal eye exams. Daphne, the original affected that was found, is now over 10. She has some minimal vision left, but if she were human you would say she is "legally" blind. She still enjoys retrieving bumpers in her yard She had great fun doing a "glory run" in agility where entries were donated to charity ... she knocked down every bar since she could not see them, but jumped every time her "mom" told her to

    To brag for Mardi Closson who owns Daphne, her breeding choice allowed Daphne to leave a remarkable heritage ... of her 9 puppies in her one litter, 8 of them achieved titles to qualify her for Outstanding Dam status with GRCA; 3 MACHs, 3 Agility Hall of Fame, 2 USDAA agility Champions, and one NADAC agility champion; a couple of WCs, CCAs, and a TDX also in the mix; and her only daughter to be bred also became an Outstanding Dam with 13 qualifying get of her own.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

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