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Thread: Ichthyosis in Goldens

  1. #51
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    OFA will record any and all DNA test results from accredited laboratories, as far as I know. Some people are also testing for DM, although I believe that is very rare in Goldens. I believe the fee is $15 (though I haven't checked recently), www.GoldenDNA.org is at no charge (it depends on voluntary donations).

    It would be tremendously valuable, I think, for us to keep track of the physical symptoms of ICT for future reference. Until now, people (including vets) simply haven't been familiar enough with the disease. If we are to know whether we can make symptoms worse by our breeding choices, we will only learn this if we collect the data. I'm not exactly sure how we can do that in an organized fashion so that the data can be most useful.

    What we are learning is that DNA testing is not "the answer" to our problems. It is a "tool" to use in making breeding choices that minimize the probability of producing animals affected with diseases that can predictably affect the dog's quality of life. It has not removed any of the many variables we were already balancing in our breeding assessments ... it has just added more variables to consider in each breeding.

    I begin to imagine that one day all breeders will have computer software to compute all this stuff ... much like k9data does with COIs.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  2. #52
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    I should know the answer to this, but I don't....didn't GRCA do a pretty big health survey recently? Did it include questions about ichythyosis?

    Barb Gibson
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  3. #53
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    Another forum to which I belong is just for golden retrievers, and it's surprising how often people post questions about skin problems in their dogs, which are almost beyond a doubt symptoms of ichthyosis, but no one seems to have heard of it or know what it is, including the vets.

    Barb Gibson
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    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
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  4. #54
    Senior Member Leslie B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
    Another forum to which I belong is just for golden retrievers, and it's surprising how often people post questions about skin problems in their dogs, which are almost beyond a doubt symptoms of ichthyosis, but no one seems to have heard of it or know what it is, including the vets.
    I agree whole heartedly. I am so lucky that my vet is the BEST and knew ICH as soon as he saw it in my puppies. Out came his reference books and he went over it with me before I left he office. I know that the other vet in the area would never have noticed the flakes.

    I also started noting a trend in puppy buyers in the last few years. It seems that more and more families tell horror stories of skin disorders and allergies in the Golden that they recently lost.

    Of course, then I also get an equal number of families that feel the price of a well bred Golden is too high. These folks wont listen when I explain the vet costs that they might end up paying for the $250 dog out of the newspaper with no health clearances or dna testing.

  5. #55
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie B View Post
    I strongly agree that we should not eliminate these dogs from the gene pool. We already have a shrinking gene pool and who knows what else will rise to the surface.

    We are lucky in that ICH has a wide range in the degree it affects the dog. Some dogs only have mild flaking at times to a perpetual hardening of the skin, hair loss, and discomfort.

    Thank you Gerry for goldendna.com. and the owners who test and post the results of their dogs. It gives all of us the information to make informed decisions when breeding our dogs.

    I am planning to breed my ICH carrier girl again - but to a clear male.
    Someone recently expressed interest in breeding to my Alex so I ordered the PRA prcd and Ichthyosis test from Optigen, I had a question about which PRA test I should do so had a nice conversation with the lady at Optigen about it. When she herd I was also doing the Ichthyosis test she told me not to be alarmed and over react if my dog showed up as a carrier. She said that so far 65% of Goldens have been shown to be carriers, and if we eliminated otherwise fine, healthy dogs on the basis of that, we would be doing a disservice to the breed. We both exchanged stories about wonderful animals we had in the past, that if we tested their DNA, dollars to donuts would show up as Ichthyosis affected. Cheryl and I just assumed our Yoda had dry skin and or food alergies, it came and went over the years, didn't seem to bother him much and we were able to control it with diet. Yoda is now 14 years old, was the best hunting dog I ever saw, derby points, QAA at 2 1/2 and won a big tough Open the day before he turned five, and he is the best family dog ever with a big smile for anybody that approches. What I'm saying is I'm glad we didn't have the DNA test back then as Yoda might not have been b


    John

  6. #56
    Senior Member D Osborn's Avatar
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    Whistler's brother was affected, I assume Whistler was, and I think Carbon is, as once a year we struggle a little with flakes. However, Carbon will not be bred, so I won't test him.
    If I use frozen Whistler, I will warn the puppy people, but it won't stop me from using it. His siblings lived to be over 12, one to close to 16. I will look for that and talent, and what I consider crippling issues. I do not consider once a year flakes crippling. He had very few issues late in life.
    I really do worry about over testing for everything, as we are going to get the golden breed in the same trouble flatcoats got themselves into. Oh well.
    Christine
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    to accept its awful gaps, we still would live no other way. We cherish memory as the only certain immortality, never fully understanding the necessary plan." Irving Townsend.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    I really do worry about over testing for everything, as we are going to get the golden breed in the same trouble flatcoats got themselves into.
    We are fortunate that we have the experience of other breeds to guide us in using testing wisely. To follow on John's post as well, the whole thing about this testing is to gather information so that we can evaluate information as wisely as possible, being aware of preserving genetic diversity and other important traits.

    It means we have to be more thoughtful in the decisions we make, and more aware of long-term consequences for the breed.

    So far I refuse to get a cell phone that is smarter than I am ... but eventually I'll probably have to give in. A lot of us can remember life before home computers were as commonplace as they are today. I still know a few people who don't have email. OMG! So smart phones and computers have made life easier in some ways; more annoying in other ways Yet, most of us wouldn't turn the technology clock backward. That's all we're really facing here ... more technology.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  8. #58
    Senior Member Sue Kiefer's Avatar
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    I think that the biggest pain of the Ichthyosis. is that it is awful when the public comes to pick up their "Perfect" puppy and it has flaky skin. And it is worse when they are little and fluffy and sooo cute....................
    Also you have to remember that it seems to effect some puppies worse than others.
    Certainly NOT the end of the world.
    Sue
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  9. #59
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    Along the same lines, I think the most important thing is educating vets, breeders, and the public about what Ichthyosis is, and isn't (allergies!). People would be a lot more accepting of it if they understood it, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sue Kiefer View Post
    I think that the biggest pain of the Ichthyosis. is that it is awful when the public comes to pick up their "Perfect" puppy and it has flaky skin. And it is worse when they are little and fluffy and sooo cute....................
    Also you have to remember that it seems to effect some puppies worse than others.
    Certainly NOT the end of the world.
    Sue

    Barb Gibson
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    CH Rosewood Little Giant UDX VER RA MHU SH MXP MJP XFP T2BP DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG
    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"
    www.GoTeamTito.com

  10. #60
    Senior Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
    Along the same lines, I think the most important thing is educating vets, breeders, and the public about what Ichthyosis is, and isn't (allergies!). People would be a lot more accepting of it if they understood it, I think.
    SO TRUE along with BREEDERS UNDERSTANDING GENETICS.
    The DNA tests for Ichthyosis, PRA, etc are not about culling dogs from breeding programs! It is about KNOWING WHAT YOU HAVE.
    "Old Trigger sometimes had dandruff, he won a million Opens though and was a great dog, if we knew about DNA tests back then we probably wouldn't have bred him, good thing we didn't know!"
    That's NOT THE POINT of the DNA tests!
    If you KNOW what old Trigger's status is, regardless of genotype you can breed him, you just have the KNOWLEDGE and POWER to never produce another AFFECTED dog again!
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