RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner

Switching programs?

5K views 45 replies 22 participants last post by  john fallon 
#1 ·
Hi all,

I am a total rookie at retriever training and I have a 7 month BLF. With that being said, I am currently using the Wildrose Gentleman's Gun Dog DVD, but after further review of this site, it sounds like that program may not be as good and does not go into much detail on what to do when problems arise, especially at a young age. I am curious about what people think about switching programs to say the Stawski Fowl Dawg series for example? I didn't really want to use an e-collar primarily for the simple fact that I am trying to train a dog on a budget and couldn't spend the money on one. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
#2 ·
just like a kid changing school midterm. you will back up and review and go over things the dog may, or may not know. Nothing wrong with changing, or upgrading from older to newer. Best thing my early mentors taught me was read EVERYTHING you can get your hands on and take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt. This is not saying you should hop-scotch about with a dog. You should pick a program and follow it for the first few dogs. At least until you can sit and visualize the process in your head. When you get to that point is when you start pondering changing and tweaking and creating a way you will do things. And in this day and age more and more people are taking a bit from one and a bit from another, adding a handful of personal experience and stirring up what they are comfortable with. So, follow a program that you like. But if you start one and feel it lame. The Smart Change, to a Total Retriever, will not lead you a Fowl.
 
.
 
#7 ·
Regardless of what program you choose, you will find a brushup on the prinicples if animal learning very helpful. Karen Pryor's book, Don't Shoot the Dog , is well written, short, a good read, and a good review of animal learning.
 
#8 ·
Ken, Funny. I was confused also about the now famous last sentence.
 
#9 ·
determining which program to use based on the price involved is " penny wise,pound foolish"...we are all training a dog on a budget, but instead of going whole hog on DVD's books or other training aids, you MIGHT want to consider finding someone to mentor you in training the dog, might cost you a lunch or two, or it might just cost you some time or exchanging some bird throwing labor in exchange for the lessons learned
 
#10 ·
I agree that finding someone to mentor you is great. But only if the mentor is great.

I think the best thing to do is get a complete program (I use Lardy's TRT, CC & TRM) and study it. Don't just watch it once, and don't just watch the different drills, set ups, etc. and go try them. Really listen to what Mike (or who ever you get) has to say. When they correct, when the get gunner help, etc.

So now you have studied the material and have a mentor or training group to help you. Now take full responsibility for your dog's training. No matter how good you think your mentor or training group is, don't do something with your dog that is not consistent with the training program you are following. Being new, it will be difficult to judge what is and is not consistent.

I trained three dogs using this method. I remember the very expeienced trainer that I trained with on the weekends would tell me to try this or that and I'd tell him its not in the dvd, I'm not doing it (I had trained with others not so good and I was wary). Now I understand that many of the things he suggested would have been fine to do, as this fellow trained a lot with Andy Attar and was very familiar with the Lardy program. But my dogs turned out well not doing them.

Remember its your dog and you have to live with the consequences, good or bad.
 
#12 ·
Coming from someone that used "The Gentleman's Gun Dog" program, do you think I should try and use a different program being that this is my first retriever? I am some what hesitant about using an e-collar, not because I am against them but because I am a beginner....But I guess you have to start somewhere.
 
#13 ·
Most if not all of the programs will help YOU learn when & when not to use the collar in a very humane and fair way. I believe lardy has a whole dvd on collar conditioning.haven't personally seen it but I have the Lardy TRT book and videos and smartworks book by Evan Graham.Both are very informative .There was several paticular steps I liked from smarworks but personally got more from TRT as a total package . JMO.take it for what you will
 
#14 ·
Another good dvd is ( Gun Dog Training the Young Labrador) with Stan Harvey. I'm not sure where it can be found, a friend gave me mine. It is a non e-collar video.

Good luck :)
 
#18 ·
The Rick Stawski videos are a great choice and the entire 3 disk series can be purchased for well under $100. The nice thing about them is that you get to see dogs making the mistakes that yours will make, and you see them progress through them. Like the Lardy program, it is essentially a modified Rex Carr based system.
 
#28 ·
Yes that helps Dennis. I have often wondered just how much things have been "tweeked" in these Rex based programs. I would assume much of the difference would be in approach and not order. I would also assume some approach or method would HAVE to change over time or our dogs would not continue to improve no matter the breeding. It would be kind of cool to listen to some disscusion on the evolution.
 
#29 ·
Yes that helps Dennis. I have often wondered just how much things have been "tweeked" in these Rex based programs. I would assume much of the difference would be in approach and not order. I would also assume some approach or method would HAVE to change over time or our dogs would not continue to improve no matter the breeding. It would be kind of cool to listen to some disscusion on the evolution.
Future train wreck on RTF. ;)
 
#31 ·
For switching problems w/o the use of a e-collar, you'll have to have your dog on a rope and when it switches, say no, stop the dog and cast (or just use your body to get the dogs momentum in the right direction). It is also a good time to get a training buddy to help when the dog attempts to switch (yell a hey-hey 1st, fake throw, then throw bird if he's not in the area). If you're on a tight budget you should buy several books first then buy the DVD series when you have some cash. Smartworks, Total retriever and Dennis' training retrievers alone are good.
 
#39 ·
I took a dog through her HR title training purely "british" with straight passes, but I was NOT happy with momentum. I then took about 6 months and went back to square one, and tried my best to follow Lardy's program, and supplemented with Evan's if it explained the same thing in terms I understood. It is not traumatic for the dog, and I have been very pleased with the results. So, its no big deal to "change" from a UK to a "Carr based" program. Much of the "british" stuff will help you as far as steadiness when you get the dog's motor running. Learn all you can before you start about the "new" program. Find a mentor or two who have trained multiple dogs on a "Carr based" program. Be very patient, fair to the dog, don't skip steps, and enjoy the journey.
 
#44 ·
Kyle,

Much depends on what your hopes and aspirations are. If you want a sound hunting dog following The Wildrose method will get you most of the way. IMO it doesn't give you enough of a start on the basic obedience tasks; you need to have that in place before getting into the retrieving stuff. From that point onwards you'd be fine.

If you want to enter serious competition then you need to study the other resources that have been mentioned. Of the three standard works mentioned the only one I have is Fowl Dawgs. I don't find it impressive, particularly in the initial phases. Evan Graham (Smartworks) is a member of this forum and is always willing to help. Mr Lardy comes with recommendations from folks with real knowledge.

In either case as a beginner you'd be well advised to join a local training group; it's always a source of quiet enjoyment to find other people in just the same b***** mess that you are!

I'd be tempted to stay with what you've got (assuming the obedience thing is sorted out) and see where you get to, but it's up to you.

Regards

Eug
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top