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Thread: 2011 NFL MVP Debate gdg

  1. #31
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    My vote would go to Brees but barely.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    In all honesty, that was the second most fun Packer game I ever saw.

    The expectations were low and the results were fun to watch.


    The most fun Packer game ever??
    A Monday night game between the Redskins and the Packers.

    It's a whole new season now, the playoffs (called vacation in Chicago and MN) and it appears (based on what I read here) its the Saints SB trophy.


    Should be easy for the Saints really.

    I mean the have Detroit at home (a turf team BTW) and then on to that chump team San Fran (outdoors on grass) and then the Packers probably shouldn't even show up at Lambeau, on turf and freakin' cold!!!


    Who knows, since Flynn is hot, maybe they should just play him!!~!!

    Looks like a cakewalk for the Saints to me.
    I know Clay Matthews is afraid.





    RK
    Y'all are going to have to beat the Eli and the Giants first. No easy task

    And, the 49ers look very tough. I wouldn't downplay their D.
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

  3. #33
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Y'all are going to have to beat the Eli and the Giants first. No easy task

    And, the 49ers look very tough. I wouldn't downplay their D.
    I think I would rather take my chances against the Giants than Detroit and San FRan.

    But that's just me, what do I know???????



    RK
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    I think I would rather take my chances against the Giants than Detroit and San FRan.

    But that's just me, what do I know???????



    RK
    I'd rather play the Giants at thier stadium then play at Candlestick.
    with all that January wind.

    The Fort Worth Kid, crowned Ceasar of Loosiana

    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

  5. #35
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    From Peter King;

    Peter King summed it up nicely today:

    Interesting, but not surprising. After the last week, I expected Brees to win the popular vote, in part because of his greatness this year, and in part of what Bill Barnwell wrote about on Grantland.com recently. He called it "recency,'' as in "what have you done for me lately?'' Brees, in the last seven games, is 7-0 with 25 touchdowns and three interceptions; he has set NFL records for passing yards in a season (5,476) and completion percentage (71.2). In the last three weeks, Rodgers has lost to Kansas City, beaten Chicago with a five-touchdown night, and sat (coach's decision) against the Lions.

    Amazing that sitting Sunday would do so much to affect the race. Or might do so much to affect the race. As @joshbickford wrote with his vote for Brees: "Matt Flynn changes my vote to Drew Brees.''

    In other words, the sick performance by Flynn in relief of the resting Rodgers could well have the effect of leaking votes from Rodgers and giving them to Brees. If a rusty backup like Flynn can throw for 480 yards with six touchdowns piloting the Green Bay offense, doesn't that diminish what Rodgers has been able to do all season?

    "That shouldn't be the case at all,'' Flynn told me after his shredding of the Lions. He seemed upset to think it might be. "The numbers today were just because we went back and forth all day. Nothing I did today should do anything to diminish what Aaron's done. He's the MVP, for sure, for what he's done from the start of the season.''

    Let me weigh in on just that topic ...
    ***
    The MVP dilemma. Brees made it a horse race, and more than that. In the end, early this morning, I struggled with what to do with my vote, one of 50 for the annual Associated Press NFL awards and All-Pro team. I could go Brees, or I could go Rodgers, or I could, as I've done before, split my vote half and half. I thought a lot about doing that, and I can see why some voters might do that. Unlike baseball, the football MVP is done by voting for first place. Not first, second and third, or more than that. Just one vote. So that was a consideration in a very tight race.

    Brees has had, arguably, the greatest statistical offensive season a quarterback has ever had, with the most passing yards, the best accuracy, and the fourth-most touchdowns in a season (46). Rodgers set the NFL mark for passer rating, became the first passer to have 12 straight games with a rating over 105, led the Packers to the best record in the league, and had the best passing season the Packers have ever seen -- which is saying something, considering their Hall of Fame heritage (Arnie Herber, Bart Starr and soon Brett Favre).

    Sometime after 5 this morning, I finalized my call. I decided not to split the vote, because I thought it would be a cop out. I felt I had to make a decision. And I picked Rodgers. Four reasons:

    1. I thought Rodgers was better for the full season. Rodgers was 14-1, Brees 13-3. So much can go into wins and losses, and each man did more than any on his team to lead to those wins. But in the two midseason losses that ultimately cost the Saints the second seed in the playoffs, Brees was less than perfect, and it hurt his team. In a six-point loss to Tampa Bay in Week 6, Brees threw one interception late in the first half that Josh Freeman turned into a touchdown three plays later. Late in the fourth quarter, down six, Brees threw an interception in the end zone. Two weeks later, New Orleans went to St. Louis and lost by 10 to A.J. Feeley and the Rams. Brees threw one interception that was returned for a touchdown, and the other was turned into a touchdown pass by Feeley. In Rodgers' first 12 weeks of the season, he ground up every opponent with remarkable efficiency, throwing 37 touchdowns with just five interceptions ... almost the same way Brees played at the end of the season. In the last eight games, Brees was as brilliant as Rodgers was for the first 12. The Saints were 8-0, and he threw 27 touchdowns with four interceptions, and was a paragon of accuracy. But those two losses to, as it turned out, 4-12 and 2-14 teams, with Brees mistakes a factor, weighed on my decision. In the end, it was like watching two almost perfect skaters, and one lands the quad and one has a perfect program except for double-footing the landing on one jump.

    2. Brees had five multiple-interception games, Rodgers none. Not decisive, but a factor. I also thought the TD-to-interception differential (plus-39 for Rodgers, plus-32 for Brees) and the yards per attempt (9.25 to 8.33, in Rodgers' favor) was a factor.

    3. I wanted to respect statistics but not be overwhelmed by them. I have tremendous respect for Brees the team player, and I couldn't care less that he was throwing the ball up 22 with three minutes to play against Atlanta. All he's doing is executing the plays that are called. But I don't want numbers, some of which are exacerbated in blowouts like the 62-7 rout of the Colts (Brees) and 45-7 rout of the Vikings (Rodgers), to affect the vote unduly, particularly since Brees threw 155 more passes than Rodgers.

    4. Rodgers won the head-to-head matchup. Again, not overwhelming. But a brick in the wall.
    As for the Flynn performance, I think it could be evidence that it's the system and the supporting cast as much as the player that makes the quarterback in Green Bay. But how much stock do you put in one game? Is it anecdotal or absolutely proof? I think it's more of the former, but I just don't think we have enough proof. How do we know that if Chase Daniel, Brees' backup, started against the Panthers Sunday with all that talent around him in the passing game, and with a superb play-caller in Sean Payton who knows what Daniel does well and what he doesn't, that he wouldn't have thrown for 330 and four touchdowns? We don't.
    One of the things that bothers me about not voting for Brees is that I think, overall, he's been the best quarterback in football over the last six years, with a phenomenal record of achievement. And he hasn't won an MVP. I sincerely hope he does before he retires, and if he wins it this year, I won't be bothered at all, because Brees has been a great difference-maker this year. I just think Rodgers has been a little better for the full season.


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    RK
    Stan b & Elvis

  6. #36
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    My responce to Peter King in red;

    Peter King summed it up nicely today:

    Interesting, but not surprising. After the last week, I expected Brees to win the popular vote, in part because of his greatness this year, and in part of what Bill Barnwell wrote about on Grantland.com recently. He called it "recency,'' as in "what have you done for me lately?'' Brees, in the last seven games, is 7-0 with 25 touchdowns and three interceptions; he has set NFL records for passing yards in a season (5,476) and completion percentage (71.2). In the last three weeks, Rodgers has lost to Kansas City, beaten Chicago with a five-touchdown night, and sat (coach's decision) against the Lions.

    Amazing that sitting Sunday would do so much to affect the race. Or might do so much to affect the race. As @joshbickford wrote with his vote for Brees: "Matt Flynn changes my vote to Drew Brees.''

    In other words, the sick performance by Flynn in relief of the resting Rodgers could well have the effect of leaking votes from Rodgers and giving them to Brees. If a rusty backup like Flynn can throw for 480 yards with six touchdowns piloting the Green Bay offense, doesn't that diminish what Rodgers has been able to do all season?
    No.
    "That shouldn't be the case at all,'' Flynn told me after his shredding of the Lions. He seemed upset to think it might be. "The numbers today were just because we went back and forth all day. Nothing I did today should do anything to diminish what Aaron's done. He's the MVP, for sure, for what he's done from the start of the season.''

    Let me weigh in on just that topic ...
    ***
    The MVP dilemma. Brees made it a horse race, and more than that. In the end, early this morning, I struggled with what to do with my vote, one of 50 for the annual Associated Press NFL awards and All-Pro team. I could go Brees, or I could go Rodgers, or I could, as I've done before, split my vote half and half. I thought a lot about doing that, and I can see why some voters might do that. Unlike baseball, the football MVP is done by voting for first place. Not first, second and third, or more than that. Just one vote. So that was a consideration in a very tight race.

    Brees has had, arguably, the greatest statistical offensive season a quarterback has ever had, with the most passing yards, the best accuracy, and the fourth-most touchdowns in a season (46). Rodgers set the NFL mark for passer rating, became the first passer to have 12 straight games with a rating over 105, led the Packers to the best record in the league, and had the best passing season the Packers have ever seen -- which is saying something, considering their Hall of Fame heritage (Arnie Herber, Bart Starr and soon Brett Favre).

    Sometime after 5 this morning, I finalized my call. I decided not to split the vote, because I thought it would be a cop out. I felt I had to make a decision. And I picked Rodgers. Four reasons:

    1. I thought Rodgers was better for the full season. Rodgers was 14-1, Brees 13-3. It's a team game. So much can go into wins and losses, and each man did more than any on his team to lead to those wins. But in the two midseason losses that ultimately cost the Saints the second seed in the playoffs, Brees was less than perfect, and it hurt his team. In a six-point loss to Tampa Bay in Week 6, Brees threw one interception late in the first half that Josh Freeman turned into a touchdown three plays later. One interception came on a tipped ball and the other came on a bad call by the ref on a roughing the passer call keeping the Bucs drive alive. The Saints D player hit the QB with his shoulder and not his helmet! Late in the fourth quarter, down six, Brees threw an interception in the end zone. Two weeks later, New Orleans went to St. Louis and lost by 10 to A.J. Feeley and the Rams. No team would have beaten the Rams that weekend. Not with the new WS Champs in attendence. Brees was also sacked 5 times, our O line played poorly that game. Brees threw one interception that was returned for a touchdown, and the other was turned into a touchdown pass by Feeley. In Rodgers' first 12 weeks of the season, he ground up every opponent with remarkable efficiency, throwing 37 touchdowns with just five interceptions ... almost the same way Brees played at the end of the season. In the last eight games, Brees was as brilliant as Rodgers was for the first 12. The Saints were 8-0, and he threw 27 touchdowns with four interceptions, and was a paragon of accuracy. But those two losses to, as it turned out, 4-12 and 2-14 teams, with Brees mistakes a factor, weighed on my decision. In the end, it was like watching two almost perfect skaters, and one lands the quad and one has a perfect program except for double-footing the landing on one jump.

    2. Brees had five multiple-interception games, Rodgers none. Not decisive, but a factor. I also thought the TD-to-interception differential (plus-39 for Rodgers, plus-32 for Brees) and the yards per attempt (9.25 to 8.33, in Rodgers' favor) was a factor. Interceptions are not always the fault of the QB!

    3. I wanted to respect statistics but not be overwhelmed by them. I have tremendous respect for Brees the team player, and I couldn't care less that he was throwing the ball up 22 with three minutes to play against Atlanta. All he's doing is executing the plays that are called. But I don't want numbers, some of which are exacerbated in blowouts like the 62-7 rout of the Colts (Brees) and 45-7 rout of the Vikings (Rodgers), to affect the vote unduly, particularly since Brees threw 155 more passes than Rodgers.

    4. Rodgers won the head-to-head matchup. Again, not overwhelming. But a brick in the wall.
    As for the Flynn performance, I think it could be evidence that it's the system and the supporting cast as much as the player that makes the quarterback in Green Bay. But how much stock do you put in one game? Is it anecdotal or absolutely proof? I think it's more of the former, but I just don't think we have enough proof. How do we know that if Chase Daniel, Brees' backup, started against the Panthers Sunday with all that talent around him in the passing game, and with a superb play-caller in Sean Payton who knows what Daniel does well and what he doesn't, that he wouldn't have thrown for 330 and four touchdowns? Chase Daniels is not a good QB. Daniels being on the Saints squad is a mystery to fans. I'd swap Daniels for Flynn seven days a week.
    One of the things that bothers me about not voting for Brees is that I think, overall, he's been the best quarterback in football over the last six years, (yes, he is and no QB has done more in the last 6 seasons)with a phenomenal record of achievement. And he hasn't won an MVP. I sincerely hope he does before he retires, and if he wins it this year, I won't be bothered at all, because Brees has been a great difference-maker this year. I just think Rodgers has been a little better for the full season. Still a lot of Football to be played!

    I remember in 1979 when we had a split MVP. Archie Manning split it with someone, I don't remember who. It diminished the award for both.
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

  7. #37
    Senior Member Lucky Number Seven's Avatar
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    January 22nd will end all this talk (if both teams make it that far) whatever the MVP vote ends up being.

    Packers beat the Rams, Falcons, Buccaneers and Saints this season. Not to mention the Giants on the road and the Lions twice. They have beat all the teams that the Saints lost to plus 4 out of the other 5 teams in the NFC playoffs (didn't play the 49ers.....yet).

    Who knows it maybe another split MVP vote like Sanders and Favre 1997 (o yeah another Packer).

    Perennial powerhouses regards

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Y'all are going to have to beat the Eli and the Giants first. No easy task

    And, the 49ers look very tough. I wouldn't downplay their D.
    Been there....done that.....will do it again...this time at the hollowed grounds of LAMBEAU FIELD

  9. #39
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    since the Niners are the number 2 seed in the NFC, would the Saints play the Niners in the semis or would they play the Packers
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  10. #40
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    Packers will only play Saints in NFC title game. Not before.
    Charlotte Kaiser: " The Problem Lies In The Talent."

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