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Thread: What if I get an MH on my dog in two AKC venues?

  1. #21
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Jurrasic Boykin???

    Dern!!!! Them Yeller eyes too!!!

    I'm gonna have nightmares.


    Gooser


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  2. #22
    Senior Member Dave Flint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angie B View Post
    Tom, at our test there was a fella with 3 boykins entered. They did exactly as you describe. The one I have in training now has me a believer!! I got him right at 6 months and I taught him to mark with his eyes and not trail with his nose. His trainability and water attitude can match any retriever on the truck. Plus he can flat out mark. I'm serious. This particular fella is out of CH bitch and a dog that guides for a game farm. His structure and type is wonderful.

    I told everyone that his breed was what I was going to get when I was an old lady and couldn't handle a big lab anymore, but that's so far down the road I can't wait that long...

    p.s. We don't let Hank look in any mirrors or shiny surfaces we let him think he's a lab...

    Hank, the duck dog....



    Could you not kiss the cheeks right off of this guy?? I'm in Love!!! Don't tell Bernie the chessie.... LOL

    Angie

    That is a very nice looking Boykin! I've observed that spaniel enthusiasts actually prefer to see a dog that fades w/ the wind a little & uses his nose to make the retrieve. I even think it is probably the more effective strategy for retrieving on land but for water retrieving, the dog that trusts his eyes will be much more efficient.
    "The bird hunter watches only the dog, and always knows where the dog is, whether or not visible at the moment. The dog’ nose is the bird hunters eye. Many hunters who carry a shotgun in season have never learned to watch the dog, or interpret his reaction to scent."
    Aldo Leopold, Round River

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Jurrasic Boykin???

    Dern!!!! Them Yeller eyes too!!!

    I'm gonna have nightmares.


    Gooser


    Gooser it's called the "chessie stare". Takes a little getting used to but it's not long before you ignore it,,,, or laugh at it...

    Angie

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Flint View Post
    That is a very nice looking Boykin! I've observed that spaniel enthusiasts actually prefer to see a dog that fades w/ the wind a little & uses his nose to make the retrieve. I even think it is probably the more effective strategy for retrieving on land but for water retrieving, the dog that trusts his eyes will be much more efficient.
    No not really.. A dog trusting their nose on a retrieve in a test, in route to the bird will get them into trouble just like a retriever. Drag back, dropped birds, foot scent from earlier dogs working, etc will hinder the dog marking a bird and making a clean retrieve. That's in retriever tests.

    I plan on helping the owner getting Hanks AKC master hunter and then the spaniel stuff will be a piece of cake.. I've seen a spaniel master test and,,, ahem... Hank when I'm done with him could do it with 1 eye closed with a head cold...

    Angie

  5. #25
    Senior Member Dave Flint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angie B View Post
    No not really.. A dog trusting their nose on a retrieve in a test, in route to the bird will get them into trouble just like a retriever. Drag back, dropped birds, foot scent from earlier dogs working, etc will hinder the dog marking a bird and making a clean retrieve. That's in retriever tests.

    I plan on helping the owner getting Hanks AKC master hunter and then the spaniel stuff will be a piece of cake.. I've seen a spaniel master test and,,, ahem... Hank when I'm done with him could do it with 1 eye closed with a head cold...

    Angie
    I agree but those elements aren't relevant in spaniel games or hunting ( drag back, etc.) where quite often a shot bird hits the ground & runs off. In those cases, a dog that runs straight to the fall but misses by just a few feet on the upwind side can give the cripple time to escape while a dog that fades a little has the best opportunity to trail it. That kind of performance is highly regarded in a field trial & the dog that has the opportunity to pull it off moves up in the scoring.

    Spaniel hunt tests are very elementary, at least the retrieving series but that has more to do w/ the "political" nature of having several "show breed" clubs (clumbers, Sussex, American cockers, etc.) having veto power over any attempt to make them more meaningful than it does with the actual abilities of the better breeds (Springers, English cockers, & Boykins) that have been bred for hunting.
    "The bird hunter watches only the dog, and always knows where the dog is, whether or not visible at the moment. The dog’ nose is the bird hunters eye. Many hunters who carry a shotgun in season have never learned to watch the dog, or interpret his reaction to scent."
    Aldo Leopold, Round River

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Flint View Post
    I agree but those elements aren't relevant in spaniel games or hunting ( drag back, etc.) where quite often a shot bird hits the ground & runs off. In those cases, a dog that runs straight to the fall but misses by just a few feet on the upwind side can give the cripple time to escape while a dog that fades a little has the best opportunity to trail it. That kind of performance is highly regarded in a field trial & the dog that has the opportunity to pull it off moves up in the scoring
    In spaniel trials it's a 15-40 yard mark. I think Hank will be able to handle that. If the bird is a cripple or is missed by the shooters, the gunners take themselves out of the game and new guns continue the trial. No misses and no cripples in spaniel trials. The blinds are a joke..

    Like I said,,, He'll do AKC hunt tests first and the spaniel tests later.

    Angie

  7. #27
    Senior Member Dave Flint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angie B View Post
    In spaniel trials it's a 15-40 yard mark. I think Hank will be able to handle that. If the bird is a cripple or is missed by the shooters, the gunners take themselves out of the game and new guns continue the trial. No misses and no cripples in spaniel trials. The blinds are a joke..


    Angie
    Not true, Spaniel gunners are invited to shoot trials based on their reputation and often come from out of state to gun a trial. They don't shoot 15 yard marks, 40 yds is about the minimum to provide the dog the opportunity to demonstrate retrieving ability but 60 is better. If a gunner misses 2 birds in a row, etiquette demands he excuse himself but because of the dynamic nature of the trials ( 2 dogs, handlers,judges & basket carriers in the field, the gallery walking along behind & a bird planter in front) often a gunner can't take the shot so he "passes" the bird off to his teammate which can provide 100+ yd retrieves.

    Because the gunners are trying to ride the birds out far enough to challenge the dogs, some are crippled. Spaniels are sent on pretty much any bird that goes down & the performance is judged subjectively. If you've got a good dog, you relish those opportunities to move up in the scoring.

    Blinds are a joke, probably less than 30 percent of trial dogs can even be said to handle (my unscientific estimate). Many trainers have the "bird dog" philosophy that the control necessary to run effective blinds will inhibit the dogs hunting style. Only hunt tests evaluate that skill in spaniels & the Master test requirements are embarrassingly easy for reasons I mentioned earlier.
    "The bird hunter watches only the dog, and always knows where the dog is, whether or not visible at the moment. The dog’ nose is the bird hunters eye. Many hunters who carry a shotgun in season have never learned to watch the dog, or interpret his reaction to scent."
    Aldo Leopold, Round River

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Flint View Post
    Not true, Spaniel gunners are invited to shoot trials based on their reputation and often come from out of state to gun a trial. They don't shoot 15 yard marks, 40 yds is about the minimum to provide the dog the opportunity to demonstrate retrieving ability but 60 is better. If a gunner misses 2 birds in a row, etiquette demands he excuse himself but because of the dynamic nature of the trials ( 2 dogs, handlers,judges & basket carriers in the field, the gallery walking along behind & a bird planter in front) often a gunner can't take the shot so he "passes" the bird off to his teammate which can provide 100+ yd retrieves.

    Because the gunners are trying to ride the birds out far enough to challenge the dogs, some are crippled. Spaniels are sent on pretty much any bird that goes down & the performance is judged subjectively. If you've got a good dog, you relish those opportunities to move up in the scoring.


    Blinds are a joke, probably less than 30 percent of trial dogs can even be said to handle (my unscientific estimate). Many trainers have the "bird dog" philosophy that the control necessary to run effective blinds will inhibit the dogs hunting style. Only hunt tests evaluate that skill in spaniels & the Master test requirements are embarrassingly easy for reasons I mentioned earlier.
    Thanks for the correction. It's been a long, long time since I watched and helped at a springer trial. I knew being an official gun is rather prestigious and that gunners will take themselves out if they miss but the particulars I wasn't aware of...

    Angie

  9. #29
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    I have a breed in that same situation. My weimaraner has her JH for pointing hunt tests and is almost finished with her JHR for retriever hunt tests. Hope this helps.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angie B View Post
    I don't think so but I don't know.

    Angie
    For weimaraners, AKC offers JH SH MH for pointing hunt tests and JHR SHR MHR for retriever hunt tests.

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