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Tell me about flatcoat retrievers

6K views 39 replies 26 participants last post by  blind ambition 
#1 ·
Didn't even know they existed till now. Pretty dogs.
 
#36 ·
Great photo, Bob.

Dan--given the numbers of labs bred (huge), even those bred for performance (many, many, many)... and given the number of flatcoats bred (small), even those bred for performance (somewhat smaller, and tiny compared to labs)...

Well, we're both very lucky to have nice (very nice) examples of working retrievers of either breed.

Our dogs are lucky, too. :)
 
#37 ·
Clint and I have had flatcoats over the past 20+ years and could fill up a book on the differences in regard to health issues, trainability, biddability, bottom, temperament, etc. over goldens (where we started) and labs (which we have several of now).

Most of us are still looking for that all-in-one dog; that is, one that represents the breed well both in conformation and working ability in performance events, including field. That is why you do not see such a split in looks (like labs and goldens who breed FOR one or the other in most instances), and it is also why breeders will be more protective in where their dogs go.

We have had several CH MH (some QAA) dogs over the years and will continue to strive to get more of these in our breeding program, but like others have said, history dictates that these dogs mature later both in looks and temperaments and one has to be patient and not push too much too soon. Also, the acute scenting influence that makes these dogs such a wonderful upland companion can also be frustrating in the HT games where there are lots of old falls and dragback conditions.

The fact that our breed has only one AFC to its credit and no FCs in all these years tells one story. However, there are many of us out there that are trying to get our dogs QAA and play in the OAA stakes, and several have already placed or won in big trials.

The bottom line is that if you are interested in the breed, go talk to as many people as you can about their dogs. The gene pool is much smaller in this breed so it is very likely that the dogs will be related in some aspect, especially if you are looking for field talent since there is usually a strong relationship to the better advanced working dogs that you will see out there.
 
#39 ·
I have also had Flatcoats for about 20 years.

Yes they can have health problems, make sure you go to a breeder who does all the clearances, and tracks the health and longevity in their lines. My first flatcoat died at 8.5 years, and now I have 3 dogs. Gauge is 11 years old, Hunter (a Hawk son) 9 years old and Tripp 3.5 years old. And good flatcoat breeders would Not insist on breeding everything - quite the opposite!

For field - its both the dog and the training program, and having experience training a field dog. My first flatcoat - now that I look back on it - had some talent - but I had fallen into the "flatcoats need time to grow up and they are peter pans" so I didn't really train him. The next two dogs - I had no training plan, then switched to a lot of pressure - yea that didn't work either. Both dogs also spent a lot of time in obedience, and show ring so they did not get as much time in the field either.

Flatcoats do need structure and discipline, because they can be silly and fun. They will invent new ways to do things, they are very smart. They don't tolerate unjust corrections. They do need a good e collar and force fetch program.

My youngest dog is amazing in the field, but I have also followed Mitch Whites training program from the start. I now have more experience from the first 3, and he has spent the vast majority of his time in the field since he is not ready for the show ring yet.

So is it nature or nurture? And are there fewer FCR's at the high level in field because the owners are also spending time in the show ring, obedience ring, agility ring? Who knows for sure. What I can say is I'm having the time of my life playing with my youngest in the field, and I'm thrilled to have a report from an 8 month old daughter of my "show dog" that she has amazing drive and marking ability in the field. I'll make sure that she has a great training program to follow to bring out the best in that puppy!
 
#40 · (Edited)
So is it nature or nurture? And are there fewer FCR's at the high level in field because the owners are also spending time in the show ring, obedience ring, agility ring? Who knows for sure. I'll make sure that she has a great training program to follow to bring out the best in that puppy!
I happen to believe strongly that nurture makes any dog better but to have the best results you must have both qualities in equal measure. Maximize your training efforts with a well bred dog and maximize your dog's pedigreed potential with the right training. I don't believe there should be any doubt of the potential for achieving the highest levels of success in hunt tests and having a wonderful and accomplished hunting dog in the FCR. Field Trials in N.America, on the other hand, are a very specialized game which appears to favour a Labrador bred for this purpose.

We don't like to spend too much time in the show ring, because it means having to keep the dog's coat in shape and that interferes with field training...we just do enough to put a CH in front of each of their names.
 
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