The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 27

Thread: Fracking -

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    1,024

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DSO View Post
    http://www.dec.ny.gov/energy/46381.html

    This is a hotbed issue in my county (Sullivan). I'm located near the Catskill park and the NYC watershed. It appears that hydrofracking could be productive nearly anywhere in the Marcellus shale formation. A quick glance of the map shows that area to be about a 1/3 of the state. Big $$$ / big industry. There is rather large opposition to fracking but Gov Cuomo and the DEC are behind it with strict regulations. As stated earlier, there have been some incidents of contamination (I believe in Pa). Land owners / farmers no longer able to use their wells for drinking water. I saw one news clip where a farmer from Pa lit a match and was able to set a jar of his well water on fire. I'm also an owner in a hunting camp in Delaware county. We own about 700 acres and have been contacted by the natural gas industry about possible fracking on our land should it become legal. I can tell you that the gas companies are throwing around some large numbers to land owners that agree to go into contract with them. I'm not necessarily opposed to it but will admit, not very knowledgeable on the subject either. It appears to be a ways off at any rate.

    Danny
    We lived on 90 acres in Erie County some time ago. The place was lousy with natural gas. The water table was remarkably high, one needn't dig more than 30 feet or so to hit water. It wasn't at all unusual to live in an old farm home (ours was built in the 1830's) and be able to light a flame from your kitchen tap. Really, there was so much natural gas it was a nuisance.

  2. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Farmington New York 14425
    Posts
    49

    Default

    My parents live near Pittsburgh, a neighbor drilled a well 300 yards from their well, the thing still pumps up slugde and choclate milk colored water.
    The DEP has no answers. They pulled the well up higher thinking that the surface water in the well would be good, but that's bad too.
    They have a water buffalo for thheir water and not much hope to get it fixed.

  3. #13
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bill View Post
    Go to Nodak and get the picture for yourself...why expect some environmental whackos to give you anything but a slanted picture of their agenda.

    Fracking is done FAR below the water table, and todays geology experts can easily draw up a map to avoid that environmental fear.

    As one living on a farm that was above the Madison aquafir, we had our 'house' well that supplied all our home needs with just a 10' deep sandpoint under our basement. Our 'irrigation' well for the yard and garden was also a sandpoint that was 33' deep. Our barnyard well that watered all the livestock was only 18' deep.

    The only time we had to dig deeper for our wells was when the neighbor's quarter put in center pivots that were 75' deep, and lowered the water levels. I was told the entire water basin was only 350' deep. The wells my folks drilled deeper for their home/farmstead needs have not changed any since they drilled them in the early 60's. The present owners have had plenty of water for all their needs, even though several other center pivots have been added to farms in that area.

    While there is no oil 'finds' in that SE part of Nodak, we have had plenty 'lookers'. You can't be sure when those folks say they have just drilled 'dry holes', but apparently what dinosauers that might have roamed the state, must have gotten buried in the western part of the state. But if they did decide to run down to the depth of where the frackers drill, and I had them interested in my farm, I would have zero concerns about their contaminating our water supply. I'd be welcoming the extra income.

    UB
    Let me ask you a question.....have you ever thrown you trash in a dumpster at a WalMart or some other place of business?

    My guess is yes. The problem with this is you passed the cost of disposing of your trash onto someone else. Did not cross your mind that you were using their trash pickup that they pay someone for. How about when your car leaks oil on a driveway and the person cleans up your mess for you.

    Got to go to lunch but think about this

  4. #14
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Rapid City, SD
    Posts
    4,289

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    Let me ask you a question.....have you ever thrown you trash in a dumpster at a WalMart or some other place of business?

    My guess is yes. The problem with this is you passed the cost of disposing of your trash onto someone else. Did not cross your mind that you were using their trash pickup that they pay someone for. How about when your car leaks oil on a driveway and the person cleans up your mess for you.

    Got to go to lunch but think about this
    As ignorants go, you are incredulous. About the only reason I'm answering such a stupid premise is to ask you...what do YOU need to go to lunch for? You certainly aren't starving.

    As to the idiocy of your premise, if the trash pickup was used for picking up only MY garbage, I might be guilty of costing someone else to do what I should be paying for. But the fact is, that dumpster will be emptied for the trash placed in it by the owner...I'm just a piggy-back that didn't cost anyone any more than what was already being charged.

    If that's as good an analogy as you can come up with, please take it somewhere a moron might find educational, or at least an informative illustration.

    Furthermore, your name has been removed from the list of Oracles. It takes a modicum of smarts to be numbered among that group...even if it was just a lowly ranking...more for the association with IHOP as an obvious pancake eater, rather than the perceived ties to Buffet and Co.

    UB
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  5. #15
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bill View Post
    As ignorants go, you are incredulous. About the only reason I'm answering such a stupid premise is to ask you...what do YOU need to go to lunch for? You certainly aren't starving.

    As to the idiocy of your premise, if the trash pickup was used for picking up only MY garbage, I might be guilty of costing someone else to do what I should be paying for. But the fact is, that dumpster will be emptied for the trash placed in it by the owner...I'm just a piggy-back that didn't cost anyone any more than what was already being charged.

    If that's as good an analogy as you can come up with, please take it somewhere a moron might find educational, or at least an informative illustration.

    Furthermore, your name has been removed from the list of Oracles. It takes a modicum of smarts to be numbered among that group...even if it was just a lowly ranking...more for the association with IHOP as an obvious pancake eater, rather than the perceived ties to Buffet and Co.

    UB
    It may be and age thing, so forgive me if I'm being disrespectful of my elders, but I'm going to try to make my point again, so pay attention.

    My point is that people will put their waste on you if they can, so it is very important that the penalty for poluting your water have some real bite.

    And your position is they dump it every friday anyway, but if you and countless others that are piggybacking didn't put their trash in it they might not have to dump it every friday. Obviously, the cost of keeping you from putting it in the dumpster is greater than the extra dumpings.

    I never could prove it but I'm sure the fracing of an oil well near by damaged the casing of one of my water wells, thus putting salt in the well.

    Again responsible fracing is good, but somebody better keep them honest.

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Pac NW
    Posts
    4,169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    My point is that people will put their waste on you if they can, so it is very important that the penalty for poluting your water have some real bite.

    And your position is they dump it every friday anyway, but if you and countless others that are piggybacking didn't put their trash in it they might not have to dump it every friday. Obviously, the cost of keeping you from putting it in the dumpster is greater than the extra dumpings.
    While I don't disagree that there needs to be solid enforcement as even the most credible companies will have their share of bad apples, I fail to see the comparison. Throwing a sack of goodies into a WalMart dumpster is not going to increase their cost. But irresponsible workmanship can have a far greater cost than just the initial cost. I would expect even you to be able to fathom that .

    I never could prove it but I'm sure the fracing of an oil well near by damaged the casing of one of my water wells, thus putting salt in the well.

    Again responsible fracing is good, but somebody better keep them honest.
    Quite easy to prove, just do a sample & have it tested.

    The reason I posted this thread was to see what knowledge level existed. It's evident to me & I am sure others that you don't know very much about this subject. When something in a solid state is displaced & goes to it's loosest form it increases in volume by approximately 67%. While fracking will not cause this amount of displacement one can readily see there were any displacement their would be a local rise in elevation of up to 1000' were the full displacement realized. Unless there is a local rise in elevation however minutely, which is easily measured, it would be difficult for any contaminant to reach the surface, with the exception of a fissure .
    __________________________

    Marvin S

    Everyone's friend is No One's friend

    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Shelbyville, Tn
    Posts
    1,451

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    Let me ask you a question.....have you ever thrown you trash in a dumpster at a WalMart or some other place of business?

    My guess is yes. The problem with this is you passed the cost of disposing of your trash onto someone else. Did not cross your mind that you were using their trash pickup that they pay someone for. How about when your car leaks oil on a driveway and the person cleans up your mess for you.

    Got to go to lunch but think about this
    NO. I can't give further explanation without casting aspersions on those who would use other people's property for also dumping trash on property they don't own, hunting on property they don't own and don't have permission to hunt on. Such acts are low class. I guess that get my point across.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Mike Tome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Brunswick, MD
    Posts
    1,774

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    While I don't disagree that there needs to be solid enforcement as even the most credible companies will have their share of bad apples, I fail to see the comparison. Throwing a sack of goodies into a WalMart dumpster is not going to increase their cost. But irresponsible workmanship can have a far greater cost than just the initial cost. I would expect even you to be able to fathom that .



    Quite easy to prove, just do a sample & have it tested.

    The reason I posted this thread was to see what knowledge level existed. It's evident to me & I am sure others that you don't know very much about this subject. When something in a solid state is displaced & goes to it's loosest form it increases in volume by approximately 67%. While fracking will not cause this amount of displacement one can readily see there were any displacement their would be a local rise in elevation of up to 1000' were the full displacement realized. Unless there is a local rise in elevation however minutely, which is easily measured, it would be difficult for any contaminant to reach the surface, with the exception of a fissure .
    Marvin, see this site for an overview of the fracking process and issues:

    http://www.earthworksaction.org/issu...fracturing_101

    As I've tried to explain in my earlier posts, the surface contamination occurs from the thousands to millions of gallons of water that flow back to the surface from the drill site. Not from fissures in the earth, but from the original drill site. See this quote from my referenced article.

    "It has been reported that anywhere from 25 100% of the chemical-laced hydraulic fracturing fluids return to the surface from Marcellus Shale operations. This means that for some shale gas wells, millions of gallons of wastewater are generated, and require either treatment for re-use, or disposal. In 2009, the volume of fracturing flowback and brines produced in Pennsylvania was estimated to be 9 million gallons of wastewater per day, and this figure was expected to increase to 19 - 20 million gallons/day in 2011"

    Note that this waste is that generated in Pennsylvania alone.
    Mike Tome
    Duckdog's Fast Autofocus
    GMHRCH-III WR North Star's Deuce of Diamonds

    MHR WR Pondview's Bar None 1994-2006

    Duckdogphotography.smugmug.com


  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Harris NY
    Posts
    623

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1tulip View Post
    We lived on 90 acres in Erie County some time ago. The place was lousy with natural gas. The water table was remarkably high, one needn't dig more than 30 feet or so to hit water. It wasn't at all unusual to live in an old farm home (ours was built in the 1830's) and be able to light a flame from your kitchen tap. Really, there was so much natural gas it was a nuisance.
    WOW didn't know that. What did people do to have potable tap water? The stuff that Mike is posting is what really scares me. Our club was founded by my father and grandfather. There is no way we could ever replace it if it was somehow ruined. I guess the biggest hurdle for me about fracking is what do you do if your land somehow gets contaminated. Is there some form of remedy. Don't see how you un-spill the milk on this one.

    Danny
    Last edited by DSO; 02-02-2012 at 08:24 AM.

  10. #20
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,195

    Default

    There is much more to the process than what happens underground. Pressure and sand doesn't seem like they could hurt much, but it is the fluid exchange that is pumped in and out of the wells that contaminates.

    There was an earlier post of so much gas it came out of the tap water. My thought would be to get that gas very little fracking would be neccessary.

    I did test the water and took it to a lawyer and he said that it would be a hard case to make and I did not have the money to pursue damages.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •