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Thread: Fracking -

  1. #21
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    Earthquakes give me pause--more than just the ground shaking, but the idea of how much disruption it takes to make ground shake...

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ed-by-fracking

    Not saying I'm against fracking.

    But I'm DEFINITELY saying that unsuspected quaking, shaking, and shifting of the ground I stand on makes me think it would be worth a bit more investigation by more than a few third parties...
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Tome View Post
    Marvin, see this site for an overview of the fracking process and issues:

    http://www.earthworksaction.org/issu...fracturing_101

    As I've tried to explain in my earlier posts, the surface contamination occurs from the thousands to millions of gallons of water that flow back to the surface from the drill site. Not from fissures in the earth, but from the original drill site. See this quote from my referenced article.

    "It has been reported that anywhere from 25 100% of the chemical-laced hydraulic fracturing fluids return to the surface from Marcellus Shale operations. This means that for some shale gas wells, millions of gallons of wastewater are generated, and require either treatment for re-use, or disposal. In 2009, the volume of fracturing flowback and brines produced in Pennsylvania was estimated to be 9 million gallons of wastewater per day, and this figure was expected to increase to 19 - 20 million gallons/day in 2011"

    Note that this waste is that generated in Pennsylvania alone.
    1 million gallons of water = 3 acre feet - If contaminants are allowed outside the zone they should be contained in heads should roll . The Bureau of Mines had a station @ Rifle CO that worked on Shale oil for most of last century. It is hard to have a discussion when it is apparent to me that the regulators are not doing their job.

    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    There is much more to the process than what happens underground. Pressure and sand doesn't seem like they could hurt much, but it is the fluid exchange that is pumped in and out of the wells that contaminates.

    There was an earlier post of so much gas it came out of the tap water. My thought would be to get that gas very little fracking would be neccessary.

    I did test the water and took it to a lawyer and he said that it would be a hard case to make and I did not have the money to pursue damages.
    Please see above - if the regulators cannot get the folks drilling to contain their contaminants within the required area who can? Ever had a drop of CU H2O in your eye, it's a contaminant in that sense but very useful contained in the proper enviro.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member twall's Avatar
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    As has been noted, fracking has been blamed for earthquakes in NE Ohio.

    In my county we have one disposal well where waste liquid is being hauled from PA to be disposed in a well. Some surrounding counties have more wells. There is concern about increased heavy truck traffic on local county roads and bridges.

    Besides the Marcellus shale it appears that drilling is going to start in the Utica shale. A local landowners association has been developed to negotiate drilling rights/contracts. My understanding is all landowners who land is being drilled under will be compensated. But, members of that landowners association will get the better compensation.

    Also, with lateral drilling the well may not originate on your property.

    There are a lot of concerns locally.

    Tom
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  4. #24
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    The 2-20-2012 edition of National Review has an article "The Truth about Fracking" by Kevin Williamson, which I beleive to be quite good. Maybe some can post the link?

    Some excerpts TerrAqua Resource Management, one of many private firms who have sprung up to do what Municipal WWTP are not capable of doing - treat the wastewater. Apparently PA is doing a good job regulating, WV is not. The monitors on finished wells run on Solar power due to their remote location. In TX Valero operates an oil refinery using a 5K wind farm for juice. A 170K barrel refinery operating on wind . Has to be at top output to run whole refinery.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Peter G Lippert's Avatar
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    Being a working petroleum geologist, I feel that I can chime in.

    Tome, you are correct in the respect that the geology in the Appalachians is very complex. In fact the metamorphic and igneous terranes in the area have been research extensively and like many topics in geology has yet to be completely solved. How this relates to fracing is simple. Since, the geology is complex it is the responsibility of the geophysics, mud loggers, and geologist to do their "homework" so contamination of the water table does not occur e.g. the Haynesville shale incident.

    That being said it is possible to responsibly frac in many areas that have a very low risk of creating contamination. Simply put it is not good business to frac an area that is at a high risk because of the costs to clean it up and high risk of drilling a dry hole. Like most things in the industry, we must take all the necessary precautions as well as leave as little foot print as possible, and fix our mistakes when they occur. As the technology progresses so will the efficiency of this practice and thus decrease chances of accidents.

    Lastly, what most people fail to realize is that most geologist get in to the subject because they are passionate about earth processes and phenomena. We have a great appreciation for the earth and keeping it around safely for generations to come.

    Very few people get in to geology as a means to make the big bucks in the oil industry. Most that go into college with this idea do not last very long in the major. I have seen it first hand many times.

  6. #26
    Senior Member kjrice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles C. View Post
    Fracking is generally done at 10,000'+ or deeper. Those seeking to push their environmental agenda take isolated incidents and act like it's a regular occurrence. There are much greater environmental threats than fracking, and it's foolish to take the 1 time out of 100 that problems arise and limit such a vital industry. Regulation? Sure. Prohibition? No.
    Then why did it take Dick Cheney to quietly change the laws concerning the Gas industry to be exempt from the Clean Water and Air acts? AFter that, the gas industry came screaming to the NE to get at the Marcellus run.

    A nice drive to get some cured ham or tasty beef sticks from Dotti-Lou's in Stevensville, PA has turned into an unappealing dangerous ride, due to the non-stop water trucks bustling and tearing up the roads.

    I personally know people in NY whose wells have been ruined after signing a deal and letting the industry trespass on their lands. The sad thing is it is only a 20-30 year run and everyone will be left with the aftermath.
    Last edited by kjrice; 02-14-2012 at 10:02 AM.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles C. View Post
    Fracking is generally done at 10,000'+ or deeper. Those seeking to push their environmental agenda take isolated incidents and act like it's a regular occurrence. There are much greater environmental threats than fracking, and it's foolish to take the 1 time out of 100 that problems arise and limit such a vital industry. Regulation? Sure. Prohibition? No.
    Sort of like drilling in the Gulf???

    All done in service to ideology??


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