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Thread: Let's create an All Age set of Land Marks

  1. #1
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Default Let's create an All Age set of Land Marks



    A number of folks have asked in private messages how I set up tests. So, I thought I would discuss how I go about it. I do not say that this is the only way. Rather, this is the way I go about it.

    A couple of things before we get started. I have used the diagram that Darin kindly provided us. I have placed distance markers for the sake of discussion. My distances may not be accurate, but they are what we will use for this discussion.

    We also start with some assumptions:
    1. There are no unsafe areas in this field that need to be avoided.
    2. The temperature and humidity are such that you could run 400 yard marks - if you chose to do so - without worrying about a dog collapsing
    3. We are setting up a test for the Open.
    4. Time is not a constraint.
    5. We are going to set up a triple. No mark will be over 400 yards.
    6. The wind is blowing 5-10 mph at our backs.
    7. We are setting up a set of marks for competition, not for training.

    We begin by placing our flyer.

    Why the flyer?

    Because I think that the flyer is the hardest, yet easiest bird to place.
    Hard because there are so many constraints on the flyer compared to a dead bird.
    Easy because once you account for those constraints, there really are not that many options.

    My general principles on flyers:
    1. I do not use them as breaking birds.
    2. I want them to be hard marks, which dogs handle or hunt hard.

    Some people like breaking birds, I hate them. I want a dog to eliminate itself because it cannot find a bird, not because it broke. But, that’s me. Other people have a different approach.

    I want the flyer to be a tough mark. If you want to create separation in a trial, you must make each and every bird count. You cannot have any “gimme” birds. I also don’t believe in placing a bird simply to set up another bird. I want the dogs to work for each bird, burn memory on each bird, thereby making the next retrieve more difficult.

    My flyer no-nos:
    1. Shooting the flyer where a worker or contestant is at risk
    2. Shooting a flyer that must land in a specific area
    3. Shooting a flyer where the location where it lands has a disproportionate impact on the fairness of the test (this would include - in my book - wipeout flyers, flyers thrown into a test, tight to another bird)

    My flyer yes-yes:
    1. Shooting the flyer close enough to the line that the dogs recognize that the bird is a flyer (once you get past 250 yards, the flyer is - in my opinion - less and less inviting).
    2. Shooting the flyer in a location where the dogs can hunt all around the guns (for example, I do not like putting flyer guns up against the tree line where the dogs can only hunt in front of the guns.)
    3. Shooting the flyer where it lands in an area where the dogs do not want to go (heavy cover) from a gun station is located in an area where the dogs want to run (meadow)
    4. Picking a location where the gunners can ride out the birds and let them fly as far as possible (because dogs like to hunt near a gun)
    5. If you want to get really sophisticated, consider flyer feather drift and its impact on the dogs.

    Ok, so for those of you who want to play. Use the diagram and place your flyer. Explain your reasoning. After we decide on a flyer, we will work on our other two birds.




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  2. #2
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    I put up a test on this field a few minutes ago. The flyer is there in cover to make the dogs have to hunt, it is also thrown out of the test where I hope it'll be safe. Not knowing the field I probably just shot it at a busy road . I wanted the flyer to influence the dogs on the way to G2. If they flared it it would help push dogs up towards the top of the hill where G2 is.

    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  3. #3
    Senior Member JeffLusk's Avatar
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    How about this flyer. Got the "lane" to run right past the flyer with cover on both sides.

    Rainbow's November Rain MH***
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Howard

    What do you do with a flyer that lands in the thick cover, if the bulk land in the grass?

    What about a flyer that lands in the grass, if the bulk land in the grass?

    Do you call a no-bird in either situation?
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

    Home of:
    FC/AFC Freeridin Wowie Zowie (2003 NARC Finalist)
    FC/AFC Sky Hy Husker Power
    FC/AFC Freeridin Smooth Operator
    FC/AFC Freeridin Vampire Slayer (2007 NARC Finalist)
    AFC Freeridin Maserati (Double Header Winner)

    www.freeridinretrievers.com

  5. #5
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Jeff

    Same question to you as to Howard.

    Ted
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

    Home of:
    FC/AFC Freeridin Wowie Zowie (2003 NARC Finalist)
    FC/AFC Sky Hy Husker Power
    FC/AFC Freeridin Smooth Operator
    FC/AFC Freeridin Vampire Slayer (2007 NARC Finalist)
    AFC Freeridin Maserati (Double Header Winner)

    www.freeridinretrievers.com

  6. #6
    Senior Member JeffLusk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    Jeff

    Same question to you as to Howard.

    Ted
    I picked that cover because I thought it looked long enough for any flyers that went left or right should still be in cover. If that's the case, any flyer landing in the "lane" would be a no bird for myself. Not sure if anything in the rule book dictates a no bird, as I have just picked mine up yesterday and it's still in the truck. Or if this is a judges decision on what is fair for everyone.
    Rainbow's November Rain MH***
    Freeridin' Whiskey River Don't Run Dry***

  7. #7
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    I want it to land in cover. I hoped by putting the whole dang flyer station in the cover they'd manage to get the birds in the cover too.

    Most likely I won't call a no bird if it lands in grass. There should be a lot of cover for the dogs to negotiate on the way there that they have to actually mark it. If the bird comes in, in front of the cover I'll call a no bird. The dog doesn't even have to do any digging to get it.

    How much weight do you put on the flyer? They ALL land in different places. Every dog has a different mark. I do do not put a lot of weight on flyers. I want the dogs to go to the area and dig it out. I tend to give more lee way for hunts on the flyer than the other marks. Probably just the opposite of what the book says about area of the fall being bigger for the first, second and third birds retrieved.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  8. #8
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Howard, Jeff

    I am concerned that:

    1) You cannot see the dogs hunt if bird lands in cover on the right
    2) Wide discrepancy between flyers that land in grass and those that land in cover

    Ted
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

    Home of:
    FC/AFC Freeridin Wowie Zowie (2003 NARC Finalist)
    FC/AFC Sky Hy Husker Power
    FC/AFC Freeridin Smooth Operator
    FC/AFC Freeridin Vampire Slayer (2007 NARC Finalist)
    AFC Freeridin Maserati (Double Header Winner)

    www.freeridinretrievers.com

  9. #9
    Senior Member Charles C.'s Avatar
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    R means the bird is retired. Flyer is +/- 250 but angled back enough to avoid any issues shooting towards the left retired. The left hand retired retires at the cedar. There's room deep of the go bird to hunt. The right hand retired is thrown flat.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    Howard, Jeff

    I am concerned that:

    1) You cannot see the dogs hunt if bird lands in cover on the right
    2) Wide discrepancy between flyers that land in grass and those that land in cover

    Ted
    We don't use pheasants up here so we don't get the big flyers that pheasants bring to the table. Ducks will keep the area of the fall smaller.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

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