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Thread: Natural Gas for Vehicles

  1. #21
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    We are working on a deal with some local animal processing facilities to take their waste, use it to make methane, compress it and use CNG to fuel their fleets. It works best for vehicles that drive set routes and are coming by the same place all the time to fill up so you don't have to worry about finding places to fill up.

    On first blush, the economics are attractive. Gasoline is currently running about $30 per MMBtu and diesel is about $28 per MMBtu. Our CNG would cost about $ 4 per MMBtu (higher than NG these days but also take care of waste streams they are paying to get rid of).

    Unfortunately, it is very expensive to convert an existing vehicle to run on CNG and even more expensive to buy a new one--about $80k to convert, so the payback isn't instantaneous. It is still pretty attractive for the processors, though.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    I think that the conversion of commercial vehicles first is a good sign. If every diesel semi on the road were CNG, that would free up a lot of oil for the gasoline of personal vehicles. That, alone, should have an impact. Other vehicles will follow gradually as technology makes it viable. Remember, that the difference between diesel & CNG vehicles used to be $50,000, and now has been reduced to $10,000. That is an amount that made the conversion viable. I would expect that gradual advances in technology will improve the picture for smaller personal vehicles?

    The states that have committed to building the infrastructure for fueling, will take some time to do so, but now there is a real reason to do so due to the commercial vehicles dedicated to using this fuel. I think it needed a commercial "return on investment" scenario to stimulate the conversion.

    This could be a very good example of how a market need can lead to investment in innovation. To make the whole thing function in the real world, it was not acceptable to have a pricepoint difference of $50,000 per vehicle, but the vision of "profit" spurred the innovation that reduced the price to a "real world" option.

    If solar power is to become a viable energy source on large scale, it will not be because of the govt choosing whom to "support" (Solyndra) ... but, rather, because some new innovation will come up with a design that will have a market that can yield a profit.

    In every socialist or communist country it has been proven multiples times that more is produced when the worker/farmer gets to "profit" from the fruits of their labors. It is human nature, I think, for one to want to feed their children and provide themselves with a roof over their heads, and even help their elderly family members.

    When the fruits of their labors are usurped by the govt and given to someone else, what use is there in working hard? It then makes more sense for them to let someone else work hard & let the govt give them the fruits of the others' labors.

    So, those "evil" entrepreneurs have come up with something to generate profit for themselves, that will make them "rich" (or richer?), millions will benefit ... and the govt will tell the innovators that they are not entitled to be rich when there are still some people in poverty; even though even the people living in poverty will be living better than they otherwise might have.
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  3. #23
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    If you order your new truck from Ford "NatGas Ready", it is generally no more expensive than a regular truck (maybe $800 more?)... then you send your NatGas Ready truck to an upfitter for the tanks, etc... at a cost of about $2500-$4500 depending on what you want (and then send your invoice for the upfit to Ford..they reimburse you up to $1500 or whatever the rebate that month is)
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  4. #24
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Sounds like Ford is staying ahead of the curve in their thinking. And if I were Ford, I'd also be invested in some companies that produce the CNG
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  5. #25
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARay11 View Post
    If you order your new truck from Ford "NatGas Ready", it is generally no more expensive than a regular truck (maybe $800 more?)... then you send your NatGas Ready truck to an upfitter for the tanks, etc... at a cost of about $2500-$4500 depending on what you want (and then send your invoice for the upfit to Ford..they reimburse you up to $1500 or whatever the rebate that month is)
    How much space do the tanks occupy? What is the range once set-up. How does altitude affect the functionality of the conversion?
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  6. #26
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    www.cngoklahoma.com
    this is the web site of an upfitter.
    looks like range is up to 800 miles. not sure about tank size yet ... will have more info this afternoon from Ford rep and upfitter.
    "I'm gonna lean up against you, and you lean up against me. That way we don't hafta sleep with our heads in the mud"
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Is that necessarily a bad thing ... to plan for removing future liabilities that you may not be able to meet?
    I didn't say they couldn't meet them and neither did they. They specifically said that they were reducing their long term liabilities in order to increase their stock price. They tried to tell us that everyone would benefit. Like I said, it made it much easier for me to leave.
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