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Thread: My first time seeing myself handle on video... links attached.

  1. #61
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    [QUOPete, I watched the video for Bus' ears and saw lots of ear movement on each retrieve setup. What is the timestamp that you're asking about? Also, you may be able to turn up your volume and actually hear whatever he heard.

    I'm glad you asked this as I was not paying nearly as much attention to his head and ear position as I did as a result of this questionTE][/quote]

    Chris
    At 13-16 seconds is the only one I could tell from the video . On my pute it came out as a center picture flanked by 2 equal sized black strips. It was right before you called the number 5

    Also when Bus comes back from the first mark he is not set up nose to toes.


    the minutes for this are about 4.54 and about 6.08
    Is this on purpose or did you get side tracked by whats going on out in the field?
    Again,,,,you did a good job. Bus appears to be excellent on the line and a really nice dog to be around.
    Some of the errors you made are made by ALL of us.
    Its the frequency that gets curbed over time,,,hopefully .

    Pete

  2. #62
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    [QUOPete, I watched the video for Bus' ears and saw lots of ear movement on each retrieve setup. What is the timestamp that you're asking about? Also, you may be able to turn up your volume and actually hear whatever he heard.

    I'm glad you asked this as I was not paying nearly as much attention to his head and ear position as I did as a result of this questionTE]
    Chris
    At 13-16 seconds is the only one I could tell from the video . On my pute it came out as a center picture flanked by 2 equal sized black strips. It was right before you called the number 5

    Also when Bus comes back from the first mark he is not set up nose to toes.


    the minutes for this are about 4.54 and about 6.08
    Is this on purpose or did you get side tracked by whats going on out in the field?
    Again,,,,you did a good job. Bus appears to be excellent on the line and a really nice dog to be around.
    Some of the errors you made are made by ALL of us.
    Its the frequency that gets curbed over time,,,hopefully .

    Pete
    Cool....I watched it and here's what I came up with.

    On the ears going back, I will watch that more just to see if I can see a pattern going forward. It looks like his ears are back until he realizes what gun is going to yell or shoot, then his ears go up as he listens for the shot and watches the mark. Then his ears come back again as he's listening for the judge to talk to me, or whatever's going to happen before he gets released. I'll watch it more, but I don't think his ears EVER stay up for the duration of hearing the gun, seeing the fall, and until the send. I think they always drop back before he's sent. (or in the case of a multiple, they're coming up again as he's watching the next thrown mark).

    I'm definitely focused on what's going on out there with the gunners in the video. I'm definitely not spending as much time on the finer "at line" stuff that I could be (or should be). At 4:54, he was lined up, looking right at the retired memory bird and sitting. The judge had already released us when we picked up the memory bird. He looked settled in, so I sent him.

    At 6:08, we were setting up another retired mark. I believe that prior to the first mark being thrown, we were lined up fairly typically. Then, to set up the retired mark without him watching the gun walk off, I stepped "into" him, to pivot him away. There was no visible gun out there, since I was just tossing the shortie from the line. To my mind, he reacted to my push and stepped, probably more than I'd like him to (but then again, I gave a pretty exaggerated push, so he reacted - it's probably more on me than him). I was at his hip After I'd pushed him off to the left and had handthrown the go bird.

    Just curious on this 6:08 bird. What would you have done? Would you have re-heeled him before sending him? I don't know that I have EVER reheeled him in training in a situation like that. But heck, that would have been an easy mark to do it. Maybe I should be reheeling in those situations to try and maintain a strong standard that even after we turn on multiples, we should still be aligned consistently. Then again, maybe rather than reheeling, I should be pushing him less agressively to get a more refined, slighter turn.

    Thanks Pete.

  3. #63
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    Just curious on this 6:08 bird. What would you have done? Would you have re-heeled him before sending him? I don't know that I have EVER reheeled him in training in a situation like that. But heck, that would have been an easy mark to do it. Maybe I should be reheeling in those situations to try and maintain a strong standard that even after we turn on multiples, we should still be aligned consistently. Then again, maybe rather than reheeling, I should be pushing him less agressively to get a more refined, slighter turn.
    Chris

    I naturally run butt/heel or there abouts ,,,if the dog ever gets further than that or is considering itI just push a button with no command and they fly back into place . So for me when a dog "breaks or creeps " it hasn;t broken the sit ,,it has broken the place of heel.and I don't think I get ears folding back when I do it.. mostly because of developement. I train with animation in mind. SO most of my dogs look like they will explode but don't (usually),,,Not good for winning I suppose ,,,but it sure is pretty. Running a dog on the edge and still being in control is what interests me,, winning doesn't,,I have broken away from tradition training so,,

    Personally if you always run Bus on every mark head to toe then put him back in that position. Don't let him be out front ,,(maintenence)
    I am definitely the wrong guy to talk about field trials, and the wrong guy to take advice from about things concerning field trials. I would take Bills advice over mine if I were you Although movement/posture/placement of handler in relationship to dog is not a field trial only topic. Many things are going on in the dogs head as this plays out,which is evidenced by the changes in posture which takes place from the last holding blind to when the dogs number is called.

    Although I enjoy running trials and would enjoy doing well,,,my interests in trials lies more in movement and posture and how dealing with those (canine thoughts) might get me to the 4th series if they ever will,,I live for that more than training set ups . Crazy huh. I'm a weird guy.
    Pete

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson View Post
    Yes Todd, the head swing was the exact reason for the tap (literally just a tap) with the stick and the pick up by Tim. It is also the reason I asked the short gun on the left to come out front and be more visible.

    This was the key thing I wanted to work on with that mark...look past the short gun. Watch the long gun....really watch the long gun. Do not head swing. And then I blew part of it by sending him so fast!

    I agree on the rushed sends and am not the least bit surprised that everyone saw it.

    I do appreciate everyone's commentary.

    I definitely need to do more video and do more self-analysis.

    Thanks everyone.

    Chris
    Here I am nearly a year later. After GDG posted his videos, I decided to seek out this thread. This is still my only videos that I've put online. I do have a few more videos that someone did at a retriever demo from the summer. I may post some of that on Youtube, just for the heck of it.

    Here is the cool thing about the videos in this thread: I had NO IDEA this guy was behind me videotaping with his phone. I guess I should have realized it, but I was too focused on instructing the gunners (2 of whom were on their second or third training session ever), thinking about all sorts of things.

    I think of rushed sends a bit like where the muzzle of our shotgun points when hunting or shooting. We really need to create a subconscious awareness at all times of: where our muzzle is pointed, and how fast we send our dog!
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    I thought Chris' body position with the dog was perfect. (They get used to how they have been trained.) What I noticed is that Chris does not put his hand down on the longer retired gun on the double. He also seemed to turn off of the short retired gun on the set up where he made the big swing to get himself in position for the next mark, sooner rather than later. I usually count 2-3 seconds from the time the mark hits the ground... unless the count by the judges is quicker than that, of course. this coincides with the quick sends. But again, Bus is used to Chris' training methods...


    Loved Rosie.... but where is Violet?
    Violet wound up having not one, but two torn cruciates over the past year. When I did this training session, I thought Violet had lost her desire to retrieve. Today marks 16 days after her TPLO number two. She seems like she's more comfortable today than she has been for a long time.

    Who knows? We may see Violet out there retrieving again. Pete has a Violet on Youtube, why shouldn't I?
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  6. #66
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    Good stuff Chris. I have thought about posting some hunting/training videos of myself handling; and one in particular of my vocal lab going crazy to get outside to retrieve. I could use some advice, but a bit embarrassing for all to see.

    Nothing like good feedback, be it humbling or praising. I think we all like the praising better. But, constructive criticism is how we learn.

    Tough to put yourself out there--transparency is the current buzz word. Very courageous on your part--not sure I could withstand the scrutiny of the many experts on RTF. Might follow your lead, if you promise to lock the thread if criticism get's ugly


    Nice dog work Chris!
    John Stroh, Lodi ca


    There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace…........If one has cut, split, hauled, and piled his own good oak, and let his mind work the while, he will remember much about where the heat comes from, and with a wealth of detail denied to those who spend the weekend in town astride a radiator.

    Aldo Leopold

  7. #67
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    John, You can delete the thread yourself.
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

  8. #68
    Senior Member Keith Stroyan's Avatar
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    So Chris, is this what Robert Burns meant by:

    O wad some Power the giftie gie us
    To see oursels as ithers see us!
    It wad frae monie a blunder free us

    ?

  9. #69
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    Okay, quick "idiot" (English!) question. I only watched the lab clip and haven't quite waded through all 7 pages of the thread, but what is the big orange stick for? I can't quite work it out.

  10. #70
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Chris

    Terrific video. First, I admire your training calmness. Second, it was great seeing the work of your pitbull.

    Reminds me of my cousin's rescue, Gozer. He's a redbone coonhound. I taught him a basic retrieve and he loves it.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

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