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My first time seeing myself handle on video... links attached.

14K views 69 replies 30 participants last post by  gdgnyc 
#1 ·
Well, here goes:

I debated whether or not to post these publicly. I realized that I've been handling for HT/FT/hunting since the late 80's and I have NEVER seen myself on video.

I have watched a few times and I see some things that I need to fix, and did not realize I was doing.

Here are the video links:

Rosie - not a retriever - her second time ever with gunner-thrown marks. She has not been taught proper delivery/force breaking. We probably will not do so. (never say "never" though)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPEdO652hQ8&feature=channel

Bus - my lab

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymW8b2YMYCY&feature=channel

Edit after watching: This is a city golf course that was recently shut down. It is in the city. No shooting allowed. Friends in law enforcement tell me blank pistol use would likely result in some squad cars and officers with guns drawn. I'm not going there!
 
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#55 ·
Rosie looks like she is having such a grand time.....just look at that tail wagging!! Keep up on her training, Chris :) I think you'll learn lots in training her :)
 
#58 ·
Hi Captain Mike,

You got me there. Thanks for watching the videos.

I appreciated your email back in January. I have bumped you a copy of that with an updated reply.

Have fun with RTF and your dogs.

I wrote in one of the responses in this thread that I had two goals in this session that was videotaped (with my lab): work on head swinging, and work on retired guns. I was not in any way trying to simulate any kind of hunt. I was retriever training.

With my other dog, my goal was to simply go get Rosie out of the truck and have some fun since I had a willing gunner out there to throw some marks. Again, no hunting scenario claimed, nor implied. Just dog training...even with a pit! This was Rosie's second time ever picking up marks thrown by an assistant. It was Rosie's FIRST session working on steadiness....ever.

Do you run any hunt tests or field trials? Do you intend to?

Sincerely, Chris

P.S. that coat in my avitar picture...it's for dog training. When I hunt, I don't wear it. I do lots of things differently when I hunt than when I train.
 
#61 ·
[QUOPete, I watched the video for Bus' ears and saw lots of ear movement on each retrieve setup. What is the timestamp that you're asking about? Also, you may be able to turn up your volume and actually hear whatever he heard.

I'm glad you asked this as I was not paying nearly as much attention to his head and ear position as I did as a result of this questionTE][/quote]

Chris
At 13-16 seconds is the only one I could tell from the video . On my pute it came out as a center picture flanked by 2 equal sized black strips. It was right before you called the number 5

Also when Bus comes back from the first mark he is not set up nose to toes.


the minutes for this are about 4.54 and about 6.08
Is this on purpose or did you get side tracked by whats going on out in the field?
Again,,,,you did a good job. Bus appears to be excellent on the line and a really nice dog to be around.
Some of the errors you made are made by ALL of us.
Its the frequency that gets curbed over time,,,hopefully .

Pete
 
#62 ·
[QUOPete, I watched the video for Bus' ears and saw lots of ear movement on each retrieve setup. What is the timestamp that you're asking about? Also, you may be able to turn up your volume and actually hear whatever he heard.

I'm glad you asked this as I was not paying nearly as much attention to his head and ear position as I did as a result of this questionTE]
Chris
At 13-16 seconds is the only one I could tell from the video . On my pute it came out as a center picture flanked by 2 equal sized black strips. It was right before you called the number 5

Also when Bus comes back from the first mark he is not set up nose to toes.


the minutes for this are about 4.54 and about 6.08
Is this on purpose or did you get side tracked by whats going on out in the field?
Again,,,,you did a good job. Bus appears to be excellent on the line and a really nice dog to be around.
Some of the errors you made are made by ALL of us.
Its the frequency that gets curbed over time,,,hopefully .

Pete
Cool....I watched it and here's what I came up with.

On the ears going back, I will watch that more just to see if I can see a pattern going forward. It looks like his ears are back until he realizes what gun is going to yell or shoot, then his ears go up as he listens for the shot and watches the mark. Then his ears come back again as he's listening for the judge to talk to me, or whatever's going to happen before he gets released. I'll watch it more, but I don't think his ears EVER stay up for the duration of hearing the gun, seeing the fall, and until the send. I think they always drop back before he's sent. (or in the case of a multiple, they're coming up again as he's watching the next thrown mark).

I'm definitely focused on what's going on out there with the gunners in the video. I'm definitely not spending as much time on the finer "at line" stuff that I could be (or should be). At 4:54, he was lined up, looking right at the retired memory bird and sitting. The judge had already released us when we picked up the memory bird. He looked settled in, so I sent him.

At 6:08, we were setting up another retired mark. I believe that prior to the first mark being thrown, we were lined up fairly typically. Then, to set up the retired mark without him watching the gun walk off, I stepped "into" him, to pivot him away. There was no visible gun out there, since I was just tossing the shortie from the line. To my mind, he reacted to my push and stepped, probably more than I'd like him to (but then again, I gave a pretty exaggerated push, so he reacted - it's probably more on me than him). I was at his hip After I'd pushed him off to the left and had handthrown the go bird.

Just curious on this 6:08 bird. What would you have done? Would you have re-heeled him before sending him? I don't know that I have EVER reheeled him in training in a situation like that. But heck, that would have been an easy mark to do it. Maybe I should be reheeling in those situations to try and maintain a strong standard that even after we turn on multiples, we should still be aligned consistently. Then again, maybe rather than reheeling, I should be pushing him less agressively to get a more refined, slighter turn.

Thanks Pete.
 
#63 ·
Just curious on this 6:08 bird. What would you have done? Would you have re-heeled him before sending him? I don't know that I have EVER reheeled him in training in a situation like that. But heck, that would have been an easy mark to do it. Maybe I should be reheeling in those situations to try and maintain a strong standard that even after we turn on multiples, we should still be aligned consistently. Then again, maybe rather than reheeling, I should be pushing him less agressively to get a more refined, slighter turn.
Chris

I naturally run butt/heel or there abouts ,,,if the dog ever gets further than that or is considering itI just push a button with no command and they fly back into place . So for me when a dog "breaks or creeps " it hasn;t broken the sit ,,it has broken the place of heel.and I don't think I get ears folding back when I do it.. mostly because of developement. I train with animation in mind. SO most of my dogs look like they will explode but don't (usually),,,Not good for winning I suppose ,,,but it sure is pretty. Running a dog on the edge and still being in control is what interests me,, winning doesn't,,I have broken away from tradition training so,,

Personally if you always run Bus on every mark head to toe then put him back in that position. Don't let him be out front ,,(maintenence)
I am definitely the wrong guy to talk about field trials, and the wrong guy to take advice from about things concerning field trials. I would take Bills advice over mine if I were you:D Although movement/posture/placement of handler in relationship to dog is not a field trial only topic. Many things are going on in the dogs head as this plays out,which is evidenced by the changes in posture which takes place from the last holding blind to when the dogs number is called.

Although I enjoy running trials and would enjoy doing well,,,my interests in trials lies more in movement and posture and how dealing with those (canine thoughts) might get me to the 4th series if they ever will,,I live for that more than training set ups:) . Crazy huh. I'm a weird guy.
Pete
 
#66 ·
Good stuff Chris. I have thought about posting some hunting/training videos of myself handling; and one in particular of my vocal lab going crazy to get outside to retrieve. I could use some advice, but a bit embarrassing for all to see.

Nothing like good feedback, be it humbling or praising. I think we all like the praising better. But, constructive criticism is how we learn.

Tough to put yourself out there--transparency is the current buzz word. Very courageous on your part--not sure I could withstand the scrutiny of the many experts on RTF. Might follow your lead, if you promise to lock the thread if criticism get's ugly:);-)


Nice dog work Chris!
 
#67 ·
John, You can delete the thread yourself.
 
#70 ·
Chris

Terrific video. First, I admire your training calmness. Second, it was great seeing the work of your pitbull.

Reminds me of my cousin's rescue, Gozer. He's a redbone coonhound. I taught him a basic retrieve and he loves it.
 
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