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Tips on squarin up on whistle sits???

7K views 29 replies 16 participants last post by  Evan 
#1 ·
My dog is working through transition, and I have noticed, particularly at longer distances (60 + yds) his whistle sit is getting worse from square. He will sit immediately, sometimes adjusting himself to near square, but sometimes not so much. Generally sits facing the right, and turns to the right to stop most of the time, when on a line. Any tips on how to reinforce square sitting??? I can hit him with a come in whistle and he will square right up, but I dont want him to get reliant on that. Any help would be much appreciated......
 
#2 ·
I have had the same problem. I watched a training partner use the following. Handler bends down at the waist and stands back up. I trained my dog to follow the procedure by bending at the waste, here, knick sit. When back in the field used bend over at waste knick stand up. Know we are at bend over at the waist and the dog squares up.

I look forward to seeing other methods. Good luck!!!
 
#3 ·
Start out with attrition, tweet him in a couple steps and sit him again, every time he gives you anything short of a perfect sit. Do this NOW, BEFORE it becomes an issue. I let mine get away with sloppy sits during the beginning of transition, I used too much collar pressure trying to fix it and as a result every time Id blow the whistle she'd turn around and lay down like she was taking on sniper fire. I had to put her with a pro for a couple of weeks to get it straightened out. He fixed it by having an assistant in the field with a heeling stick demanding a correct sit every time, a simple enough sounding solution, but obviously impossible to do by yourself.

Good luck

PS - I dont know if you're like me or not, I tried to rush through a lot of things in transition, wanting to get to "big dog work". Looking back, it was the most rewarding and fun time I had during her development. You have so many of those "lightbulb coming on" moments during transition, its really a fun time, enjoy it.
 
#5 ·
This is what I have been doing..... but Im not seeing much improvement..... I HAVE actually thought about walking out and whacking him with the stick if I can see his rump...... PITA.... but I have considered this..... We use it training horses and they pick it up real quick...... but it would suck and take too long, I believe, to be effective....... maybe not.
 
#4 ·
Another point of view. Why is it so critical that the dog sit square? Why make an issue out of it? If the dog takes the proper cast and holds the new line, and has to turn further to get it right, he will eventually sit straighter to reduce his own workload.

/Paul
 
#6 ·
Ever tried to get a dog facing 90 degrees to the right to take a left back???? That sounds like a fight I really dont want to get into...... In reality though, he does most often take the correct cast, but maybe not on the best line had he been square.......
 
#9 ·
Oddly enough this is the second time this week I think this link below has become relevant to a topic on RTF>

Here, Bill Hillmann walks Tammy Bell through getting her dog Maxx to 'Sit' properly.


What started out as a 'Hold' concern led to a 'Sit’ lesson by Bill himself.

I've read the entire thing more than once and have watched all the videos several times. A lot of good info in that thread for sure. It's in the favorites!

http://www.findretrievers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=749





/
 
#14 · (Edited)
My dog Jack seldom would sit square but he would take any cast. Late in his career I tried to get it squared up using bird boy blinds. All it did was irritate him and get me mad. So I left well enough alone. I believe Lardy actually said this, that crooked sits don't effect some dogs casting.

Shadow always had a good square sit. But if he gives me a crooked sit, I square him up with a toot-toot.

I started Hank off by correcting crooked sits on FTP. Anytime I get a crooked sit I square him up with a toot-toot but since FTP he has been pretty good.

Another dog I trained HR Huck. I had to really work on a lay down and crooked sits. I did it on pattern and taught blinds. Toot-toot to square up and after it persisted, toot-toot, nick. This was for both laying down and crooked sits. It worked.
Huck's owner was training with me a couple months ago and Huck was giving him a slow lagging sit. I told him as soon as he acknowledged the first sit whistle to hit the sit whistle a second time and nick him. Instead he nicked him on the first sit whistle. Guess what he did, he laid (sp?) down. The owner said he was going to bring him to me to get his finished title. Now I've got to go thru that all over again.

There's got to be a point somewhere above. I think I rambled.
 
#17 ·
I don't remember where I read it, but you can work on this in the field...I think DL Wolters book suggested it.

When just out for walks have a dummy in your pocket...hidden. Blow the occasional sit whistle when the dog is preoccupied with something else. Throw the dummy between you & the dog, followed by a toot of the come in whistle. After very few of these, the dog will come to expect a retrieve thrown by you after a sit whistle, and make the full turn to face you (the gunner) squarely. I am doing this occasionally myself as my dog isn't a 100% square sitter at this point either and he seems to be getting better. Its also a no-pressure way to accomplish the task at hand without having to interrupt your regular training sessions.

Similarly you can work this into pile work while teaching the come in cast. Send the dog to the back pile. Stop him en-route, toss the bumper out toward him, and toot the come in whistle.
 
#19 ·
Similarly you can work this into pile work while teaching the come in cast. Send the dog to the back pile. Stop him en-route, toss the bumper out toward him, and toot the come in whistle.
This is what I was initially prescribed by someone....... found out that in order to get enough sits..... it seriously eroded his momentum..... wont go back to this..... I do mix it it occasionally though.
 
#20 ·
Troy,..I know this may be elementary, but I keep a bumper in my cargo pants pocket, and on a whistle SIT for casting if the dog doesn't SIT squarely, I'll twirl the bumper around by the rope..and boom..the dog squares right on up. Sometimes allowing him to retrieve it..keeps the dog on his toes to SIT squarely, never knowing what might come next.
 
#29 ·
I almost caused myself a real problem trying to square up my dog's whistle sit. I probably did it too much, and it got in his head such that he lost momentum and started what I would call almost popping; he wouldn't turn, but his momentum was terrible and you could tell he was at the ready to hear the whistle and stop.

I gave him about 3 days off and then ran some very short pile stuff for about 3 days with no whistle sits at all. I even went as far as throwing some of the bumpers back to the pile and running him to it as a mark, which caused him to throw dirt on me as he left, and praising the heck out of him when he came back. I very slowly reintroduced the whistle stop, at a much lower frequency, and now he is much better.

We have just started swim-by, and for various reasons I can't do it every day, so on the days I can't do it I am still running him to the pile in my yard. Curiously, after about three sessions of swim-by, the little shopping issue he has always had seems to have cleared itself up.

It still amazes me how these animals figure all this stuff out. I wish I could say I was helping, but sometimes it feels like he may really be doing what he is doing in spite of me. ;-)
 
#30 ·
I lean toward Howard's take on square sits. I do have a treatment for dogs that are chronic crooked on whistle sits because I believe it affects the overall accuracy of how most dogs cast. But it should be considered that some dogs with a crooked sit do it to such a small degree that it's not worth creating a battle about.

I also agree that it is an issue that sometimes goes away through attrition. Give it some thought before making it more of an issue than it may be.

Evan
 
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