You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013
get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013
My dog Jack seldom would sit square but he would take any cast. Late in his career I tried to get it squared up using bird boy blinds. All it did was irritate him and get me mad. So I left well enough alone. I believe Lardy actually said this, that crooked sits don't effect some dogs casting.
Shadow always had a good square sit. But if he gives me a crooked sit, I square him up with a toot-toot.
I started Hank off by correcting crooked sits on FTP. Anytime I get a crooked sit I square him up with a toot-toot but since FTP he has been pretty good.
Another dog I trained HR Huck. I had to really work on a lay down and crooked sits. I did it on pattern and taught blinds. Toot-toot to square up and after it persisted, toot-toot, nick. This was for both laying down and crooked sits. It worked.
Huck's owner was training with me a couple months ago and Huck was giving him a slow lagging sit. I told him as soon as he acknowledged the first sit whistle to hit the sit whistle a second time and nick him. Instead he nicked him on the first sit whistle. Guess what he did, he laid (sp?) down. The owner said he was going to bring him to me to get his finished title. Now I've got to go thru that all over again.
There's got to be a point somewhere above. I think I rambled.
Last edited by Wayne Nutt; 04-03-2012 at 04:56 PM.
Go Nutts with dog training
HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"
A Lab has no appreciation for the artistic value of a bonsai tree, but does appreciate their potential as chew toys.
On a side note.... went to gander to pick up retriever journal (Ive bought it there several times) and of course, they didnt have it!!! Why is it when you actually need something, these box stores never seem to have it at the time.......
SHR Presque Isle Jaeger Schwab JH (driving the bus)
I don't remember where I read it, but you can work on this in the field...I think DL Wolters book suggested it.
When just out for walks have a dummy in your pocket...hidden. Blow the occasional sit whistle when the dog is preoccupied with something else. Throw the dummy between you & the dog, followed by a toot of the come in whistle. After very few of these, the dog will come to expect a retrieve thrown by you after a sit whistle, and make the full turn to face you (the gunner) squarely. I am doing this occasionally myself as my dog isn't a 100% square sitter at this point either and he seems to be getting better. Its also a no-pressure way to accomplish the task at hand without having to interrupt your regular training sessions.
Similarly you can work this into pile work while teaching the come in cast. Send the dog to the back pile. Stop him en-route, toss the bumper out toward him, and toot the come in whistle.
Mike stops doing blinds in the field and takes the dogs back to pile work to work on loopy and crooked sits. He wants the teaching to be done in what the dog would consider a yard type setting. Stop the dog early before the dog is carrying a lot of momentum for success, let the dog build momentum before stopping to get correction (start with an immediate come in whistle and bend at waist with a sit whistle when straight), can add a nick if no improvement. Give plenty of freebies as always and mix up episodes of success and failure to offer the dog a contrast. Sincere praise for good sits, correct for poor sits, neither praise nor correct for so-so sits.
When getting consistently good sits during pile work, do not go immediately to cold blinds in the field. Transition from the yard to the field with BB blinds, maintaining your new standard taught in the yard. It would take you a month of running blinds in the field to get the number of sits you will get in 1 session of BB blinds.
When getting consitently good sits in BB blinds in a few different locations and at increasing distances, transition in to running blinds in the field and maintain the new standard. Don't fall in to the trap of saying, well this is a very tough PB blind so I'll allow the crooked sit. If you do, you'll quickly find the dog right back where you started. Simplify the blind, do not lower the standard.
As someone mentioned, Mike does say that some dogs cast well from a crooked sit, so this work may not be needed for all dogs. I'd venture to say that an effort would be made to get every transition/early advanced dog to sit straight before accepting the crooked sit.
Last edited by captainjack; 04-04-2012 at 08:25 AM.
Troy,..I know this may be elementary, but I keep a bumper in my cargo pants pocket, and on a whistle SIT for casting if the dog doesn't SIT squarely, I'll twirl the bumper around by the rope..and boom..the dog squares right on up. Sometimes allowing him to retrieve it..keeps the dog on his toes to SIT squarely, never knowing what might come next.
Dawgs are like Savings Accounts-
You only get out of 'em what you put into 'em.