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Thread: akc and ukc hunt tests differences?

  1. #101
    Senior Member Bill Davis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    Never really understood the HRC rule on a switch only that one is allowable in seasoned, I always thought it had to do with picking up a diversion.
    HRC diversions are very in your face, a lot of dogs may spit a bird on the way back and pick up the diversion, often times this occurs in heavy cover where you cannot tell the switch has been made, which is why they mark all the birds. Seen it happen ALOT in Finished the bird lands right in their face, usually very close to the line. It is grounds for failure in Finished

    Another switch that will fail you, is picking up a HOT blind, and HRC likes them HOT blinds
    If you are seeing that alot in a Finished Test, then the Judges are going agaisnt what is being taught in the Judges Seminars. We are taught in the seminars to throw the diversion in the area of the return from a retrieve and make it in such a way that a dog has to make an effort to switch. Again there are some judges that go on a power trip when they are in the chair and do things like that and as long as we let these judges get away with it they will continue to do it. That is the main reason I like to throw the diversion on the way back from the blind, makes it just about the same for every dog.
    Saw a blind setup a few weeks ago that was a very nice blind except for one thing, just a few feet off line to the blind on the right side, about 20 yards from the line there was a wall of willows that made it very difficult for you to see your dog or the dog to see you. The judges were going to judge it accordingly, per one of the judges..........
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  2. #102
    Senior Member Bill Davis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captainjack View Post
    Yes you can. Here it is again.

    Bill, barring any very unusual circumstances, would ever pass a dog in a finished test that hunted one AOF, was unproductive in finding the bird, left that area of the fall to retrieve a different bird?

    Its a straight forward question, would you ever pass a dog that did what the AKC calls a "switch" (which I have described above)? You don't need to see the total work on the test or the overall work for the day. Assume it was perfect if you must. Also, the test was not canceled, the handler did not go home and decide not run the second series, the dog didn't come in season, etc... This is the no spin zone.
    Glen if you are talking in AKC then "YES" it is spelled out in the rules what a switch is. If you are referring to HRC then I stand by what I said earlier. If a dog leaves AOF in a Finished test I can pretty much bet that they are going to do something else to go along with that. Which I will bet a "Handle" when they send them back on the same bird that they did not come up with before leaving that AOF on that one.
    Last edited by Bill Davis; 05-15-2012 at 04:26 PM.
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    GRHRCH UH Davis' Maximum Overdrive SH "Max" 03/27/2001 - 12/28/2009
    HRCH Davis' Wild Meadows Maverick SH "Maverick"
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  3. #103
    Senior Member GulfCoast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNorman View Post
    I don't think it's so much a difference in the rules as the terminology used.

    Lack of marking and memory or a switch. Whatever the term used, you're likely headed home.
    Yep. Pretty much.
    Wm. Mark Edwards
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  4. #104
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Judges in the early Morning Finished Hrc handlers meeting before the test starts.

    " Pick them up in any order"

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
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  5. #105
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Davis View Post
    No, that is not what I am saying about the diversion re-read what I said. A dog in Finished can not drop ANY bird to go and get another bird

    Well I guess that is the difference between AKC and HRC in what each classify as a switch. AKC has one on the Marks and HRC does not. You have to follow the rules for each when you Judge, you can't make them up as you go.......... Well some Judges do
    Thanks for the reply.
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
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    "Knowing how important right timing is in accomplishing right actions"
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  6. #106
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    5. Dogs are expected to challenge the blind(s) in both venues but AKC judges may designate a specific line to the blind.
    Janet, what does the above mean? I thought challenging the blind meant not to deviate to much from the direct line to the blind. How can you challenge the blind but not be held accountable for the line? Just seems contradictory to me.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Huntington View Post
    Is there a reason dog did not pick it up....fire ants on bird, dropped in hole, other things that go bump in the night....
    This would constitute the unusual circumstances that wre barred from my previous post. I believe both the HRC an AKC rules allow the judges latitude in circumstances that make a test relatively unfair.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    Janet, what does the above mean? I thought challenging the blind meant not to deviate to much from the direct line to the blind. How can you challenge the blind but not be held accountable for the line? Just seems contradictory to me.
    Howard, obviously I'm not Janet, but In HRC as judges, we can't say you must run between those two trees, bushes, or whatever. All we can say is we expect you to challenge the blind and then we judge their attempt or not to stay on line.
    "Force fetch isn't about retrieving as much as it is conditioning a dog to handle pressure, in a very controlled environment. It's about putting a dog in the position of having to figure out how to turn off pressure by finding the correct response. This translates into numerous areas in training." Sharon Potter.

  9. #109
    Senior Member David McCracken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    Janet, what does the above mean? I thought challenging the blind meant not to deviate to much from the direct line to the blind. How can you challenge the blind but not be held accountable for the line? Just seems contradictory to me.
    The AKC judges I have run under stated that the "line to the blind is between the tree and the stump", meaning that going outside of that line was unacceptable. In HRC, if the dog goes to the outside of the stump and recovers well, he may still pass.
    Carolina American Water Spaniels

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  10. #110
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    In HRC can you enter a dog in two different levels, for example started and seasoned, at the same test? I know there was at least one dog entered in both Junior and Senior this past weekend at the AKC test we ran.

    Barb Gibson
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    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
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