akc and ukc hunt tests differences?

[Bill Davis]

Never really understood the HRC rule on a switch only that one is allowable in seasoned, I always thought it had to do with picking up a diversion.
HRC diversions are very in your face, a lot of dogs may spit a bird on the way back and pick up the diversion, often times this occurs in heavy cover where you cannot tell the switch has been made, which is why they mark all the birds. Seen it happen ALOT in Finished the bird lands right in their face, usually very close to the line. It is grounds for failure in Finished

Another switch that will fail you, is picking up a HOT blind, and HRC likes them HOT blinds

If you are seeing that alot in a Finished Test, then the Judges are going agaisnt what is being taught in the Judges Seminars. We are taught in the seminars to throw the diversion in the area of the return from a retrieve and make it in such a way that a dog has to make an effort to switch. Again there are some judges that go on a power trip when they are in the chair and do things like that and as long as we let these judges get away with it they will continue to do it. That is the main reason I like to throw the diversion on the way back from the blind, makes it just about the same for every dog.
Saw a blind setup a few weeks ago that was a very nice blind except for one thing, just a few feet off line to the blind on the right side, about 20 yards from the line there was a wall of willows that made it very difficult for you to see your dog or the dog to see you. The judges were going to judge it accordingly, per one of the judges..........

[Bill Davis]

Yes you can. Here it is again.

Bill, barring any very unusual circumstances, would ever pass a dog in a finished test that hunted one AOF, was unproductive in finding the bird, left that area of the fall to retrieve a different bird?

Its a straight forward question, would you ever pass a dog that did what the AKC calls a "switch" (which I have described above)? You don't need to see the total work on the test or the overall work for the day. Assume it was perfect if you must. Also, the test was not canceled, the handler did not go home and decide not run the second series, the dog didn't come in season, etc... This is the no spin zone.

Glen if you are talking in AKC then "YES" it is spelled out in the rules what a switch is. If you are referring to HRC then I stand by what I said earlier. If a dog leaves AOF in a Finished test I can pretty much bet that they are going to do something else to go along with that. Which I will bet a "Handle" when they send them back on the same bird that they did not come up with before leaving that AOF on that one.

[GulfCoast]

I don't think it's so much a difference in the rules as the terminology used.

Lack of marking and memory or a switch. Whatever the term used, you're likely headed home.

Yep. Pretty much.

[MooseGooser]

Judges in the early Morning Finished Hrc handlers meeting before the test starts.

" Pick them up in any order"

Gooser

[Mary Lynn Metras]

No, that is not what I am saying about the diversion re-read what I said. A dog in Finished can not drop ANY bird to go and get another bird

Well I guess that is the difference between AKC and HRC in what each classify as a switch. AKC has one on the Marks and HRC does not. You have to follow the rules for each when you Judge, you can't make them up as you go.......... Well some Judges do

Thanks for the reply.

[Howard N]

5. Dogs are expected to challenge the blind(s) in both venues but AKC judges may designate a specific line to the blind.

Janet, what does the above mean? I thought challenging the blind meant not to deviate to much from the direct line to the blind. How can you challenge the blind but not be held accountable for the line? Just seems contradictory to me.

[captainjack]

Is there a reason dog did not pick it up....fire ants on bird, dropped in hole, other things that go bump in the night....

This would constitute the unusual circumstances that wre barred from my previous post. I believe both the HRC an AKC rules allow the judges latitude in circumstances that make a test relatively unfair.

[Dman]

Janet, what does the above mean? I thought challenging the blind meant not to deviate to much from the direct line to the blind. How can you challenge the blind but not be held accountable for the line? Just seems contradictory to me.

Howard, obviously I'm not Janet, but In HRC as judges, we can't say you must run between those two trees, bushes, or whatever. All we can say is we expect you to challenge the blind and then we judge their attempt or not to stay on line.

[David McCracken]

Janet, what does the above mean? I thought challenging the blind meant not to deviate to much from the direct line to the blind. How can you challenge the blind but not be held accountable for the line? Just seems contradictory to me.

The AKC judges I have run under stated that the "line to the blind is between the tree and the stump", meaning that going outside of that line was unacceptable. In HRC, if the dog goes to the outside of the stump and recovers well, he may still pass.

[hotel4dogs]

In HRC can you enter a dog in two different levels, for example started and seasoned, at the same test? I know there was at least one dog entered in both Junior and Senior this past weekend at the AKC test we ran.