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Thread: Pure Capitalism

  1. #11
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    And so does every other system ... in EVERY system, including our own, the ones who ALWAYS live well are the politicians! None of them ever go without food or shelter or health care.

    The question Friedman asks is what other system does more for those at the lowest rungs of the economic ladder. Even compare the middle class.

    There is also no denying that the US (and Canada) have been blessed with incredible natural resources that Europe doesn't have, except for Russia. So, you could compare the US to Russia,


    Everyone is free to make that decision. Some people take a second job (no overtime in there) when they aspire to have something extra that is outside their financial means ... providing something extra for their kids, for example.



    And look at how many people have NOT gone to jail for that shell game.

    NOBODY, not even Friedman, advocates for there being NO rules. Talking about rules, did we ever find out if Geithner ever paid his back taxes?
    I'll be the first to agree with you that the system did not punish those that needed it to.

    The world is much more complicated that economic theory and Friedman would agree with that. Economic theory is a staring point because you can not model all the variables.

    Fogul is another economist that won a nobal prize that approach the social issues. His theories would apply to the lack of parenting, growing unprepared work force, cost of no wellfare vs cost of it, etc.

    See you can't manage this stuff by itself...think about building a house and you change the width of a room and watch how it ripples though the rest of the house

  2. #12
    Senior Member coachmo's Avatar
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    Won't there always be the have's and have not's based on a variety of elements including self -determination, desire, motivation, etc. not just greed and the other negatives you and your kind always point too. You are always pissing and moaning about successful people while always questioning their motives! How about maybe alot of successful people earned their lot in life just like the lazy, unmotivated, do-nothing's have settled on theirs in part to your political party of choice pretending to always be there to help a brother out!! We all no that rarely happens.

  3. #13
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coachmo View Post
    Won't there always be the have's and have not's based on a variety of elements including self -determination, desire, motivation, etc. not just greed and the other negatives you and your kind always point too. You are always pissing and moaning about successful people while always questioning their motives! How about maybe alot of successful people earned their lot in life just like the lazy, unmotivated, do-nothing's have settled on theirs in part to your political party of choice pretending to always be there to help a brother out!! We all no that rarely happens.
    I'm not speaking about a fair place for the hard working folks as you described. Not having them taxed to death so the real rich don't pay. Access to affordable college for the working man kids...the rich don't need help.

    I like my kind!

  4. #14
    Senior Member coachmo's Avatar
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    What kind is that? Please share with all of us exactly what kind you like. I can't hardly wait to see which demographic you neatly classify yourself into.

  5. #15
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    I'm not speaking about a fair place for the hard working folks as you described. Not having them taxed to death so the real rich don't pay. Access to affordable college for the working man kids...the rich don't need help.

    I like my kind!

    Hmm, 50% pay zero federal income taxes!!! When are they gonna cough up their money???
    Don;t get me started on the large chunk that get a socialist redistribution check at tax time.
    How is it fair that those people not only pay zero federal income taxes but also get part of my hard earned money stolen from me by this socialist idiot OBUMMA????
    Explain that bs to me!
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  6. #16
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    See you can't manage this stuff by itself...think about building a house and you change the width of a room and watch how it ripples though the rest of the house
    That is EXACTLY the point, Sambo. It is far too complex for govt to try to do so!! Every time govt has tried to manage it, they have failed. Soviet Union? China? When govt has tried to do the management, they fail miserably. It's also notable that when these two failed at govt management, they then used capitalism to improve what they had messed up so badly. Both of those countries still believe they can use capitalism and still maintain their repression of other personal freedoms. Once individuals learn they can create wealth, they are empowered. But in countries like China, they will be a step ahead of the US because they already know that govt management has not benefited them as well as capitalism.

    Our founding fathers knew this, too ... from their European experience ... but today that experience is just history to us. We might have to go full circle before we re-discover what works for the most people.

    Certainly, capitalism can be corrupted by evils ... and so can the other systems.

    I read somewhere a couple of years ago, that if all the wealth (including the very rich) were distributed equally to everyone, each individual would end up with around $9000. And then there would be no more to distribute ... unless each of those who got their share used it to create more wealth. We might just find that those who were able to create wealth once, would do so again. Once again, imbalance would result. How many times do we have to reinvent the wheel?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

  7. #17
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    None of Obama's initiatives have been socialist. He has governed to the right from day one. In fact Obamacare requires folks to pay for it and that is why no one likes it.

    You all want a tax cut we can't afford...bottom line.

    How dare someone tax someone that is making $1MM a year, but you want to tax a bunch of people that can't afford it. Typical...just beat on the have nots and make it as easy as you can for the rich. I'm pretty sure very few of you are earning over $250,000 a year, but you want the people making $25,000 to pay the bill. Sick!!!

  8. #18
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    None of Obama's initiatives have been socialist. He has governed to the right from day one. In fact Obamacare requires folks to pay for it and that is why no one likes it.

    You all want a tax cut we can't afford...bottom line.

    How dare someone tax someone that is making $1MM a year, but you want to tax a bunch of people that can't afford it. Typical...just beat on the have nots and make it as easy as you can for the rich. I'm pretty sure very few of you are earning over $250,000 a year, but you want the people making $25,000 to pay the bill. Sick!!!

    From the right, the right of whom ? Joseph Stalin

    the reason most dont like Obamacare is not that they have to pay for it, its the mandate that you can actually be fined for not having purchased it

    unlike Madame Pelosi I have no doubt the mandate will be tossed by SCOTUS and possibly the entire law tossed out
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    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    None of Obama's initiatives have been socialist. He has governed to the right from day one. In fact Obamacare requires folks to pay for it and that is why no one likes it.

    You all want a tax cut we can't afford...bottom line.

    How dare someone tax someone that is making $1MM a year, but you want to tax a bunch of people that can't afford it. Typical...just beat on the have nots and make it as easy as you can for the rich. I'm pretty sure very few of you are earning over $250,000 a year, but you want the people making $25,000 to pay the bill. Sick!!!
    Sambo, in your opinion, what is a proper tax rate for someone making $250,000?
    "I'm gonna lean up against you, and you lean up against me. That way we don't hafta sleep with our heads in the mud"
    Forrest Gump, 1994

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sambo View Post
    None of Obama's initiatives have been socialist. He has governed to the right from day one. In fact Obamacare requires folks to pay for it and that is why no one likes it.

    You all want a tax cut we can't afford...bottom line.

    How dare someone tax someone that is making $1MM a year, but you want to tax a bunch of people that can't afford it. Typical...just beat on the have nots and make it as easy as you can for the rich. I'm pretty sure very few of you are earning over $250,000 a year, but you want the people making $25,000 to pay the bill. Sick!!!
    This is why I am in favor of a flat tax. No loop holes and every swinging, breathing, american pays the exact same percentage on their gross income regardless of how they made it. Corporations pay a flat corporate tax on their gross income no deductions.

    The argument that the rich need to pay a higher amount is bull. They argument that the poor can't afford it is bull. Everyone needs to pay their way. Once this happens the deficit can be wrestled under control.

    My opinion

    Richard

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