The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 58

Thread: *Raw Video* George Zimmerman's Reenactment of Trayvon Martin Shooting

  1. #31
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Coastal Bend of Texas
    Posts
    2,636

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    Silly me,
    I thought the dead kid was the accused?
    Z in his almighty power of neighborhood Dudley Doright
    “Accused” him of being a shifty so and so and called
    and followed and, well, went deer hunting. So some say
    it was a good thing he had the gun as he was being thumpulated.
    Well, if he had not had the gun… Do you think he would have
    had the balls to go put himself in the position to get thumpulated?
    Hmmmm?
    Can't say, don't know that man. Funny thing here is that I would have thought that you would be one to say that the residents of a neighborhood need to stand up and take responsibility of watching out for their neighbors. I really wish someone had followed and reported whoever broke into one of my rentals that we were renovating and stole ALL my power tools that had taken me years to accumulate or perhaps whoever stole (over a period of about four years) three of my lawnmowers, or perhaps the folks who stole the ac condenser unit from one of my neighbors, or the guy who broke into one of my renters and stole all their hunting equipment (the renters were wildlife PHd students) and so on and so on. Perhaps Treyvon was perfectly innocent, but considering the illegal activity that had apparently been taking place in the neighborhood, I think it was quite reasonable for Zimmerman to be suspicious of Treyvon and was also reasonable of him to attempt to keep track of him while waiting for the POlice to show up. As Treyvon was apparently less than a block from his home when he decided instead to confront Zimmerman, I suspect that Treyvon actually initiated the altercation. Even Treyvon's girlfriend's story would seem to me to indicate that Zimmerman hadn't approached Treyvon and that it was actually Treyvon who doubled back and confronted Zimmerman.

    I would also point out that Dudley Doright, although not smart, and a bit of a bumbler, was in fact, a straight arrow attempting to keep folks safe. You have always seemed like a law and order kind of guy to me by your posts and like the kind of person who would look out for his neighbors. Looks like I need to reassess that opinion.
    Last edited by HPL; 06-24-2012 at 01:44 PM.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
    (John Dewey)

    Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
    (George Washington)

    Gig'em Aggies!! BTCO'77HOO t.u.!!

    www.HughLieck.photoshelter.com

  2. #32
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Following and reporting is the role of neighborhood watch and good neighbors. Putting yourself in a position that causes someones unnecessary death is completely different. Would you be thankful to your neighborhood watch if your kid was mistaken for a bad guy when waiting outside your rental and harmed or possibly killed all for the sake of protecting your stuff? Somehow I don't think you ( or anyone else)would applaud the efforts of any GZ if it was yours that died that night. I also find it impossible to believe that you would work as hard as you are here to put the blame solely on your kid as opposed to the nice neighbor who stalked them and then killed them when your son stood his ground. Unless of coarse your kid was wearing a hoodie.

  3. #33
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Coastal Bend of Texas
    Posts
    2,636

    Default

    No kids. Biology major. Know where the little buggers come from.

    Your example simply doesn't apply here. Zimmerman didn't approach, confront, or attack Trayvon. As opposed to hunting Trayvon,it was more like Zimmerman was trailing him. As Zimmerman tells it Trayvon closed the distance between himself and Zimmerman and then didn't just "confront" Zimmerman, he attacked him and was beating him, slamming his head against concrete!! Quite a bit of this is on Trayvon. Once HE brought this to a physical level, he became the aggressor and ended up paying the price, a very high one, I'll admit, but had he simply continued home instead of closing the distance between himself and Zimmerman and then attacking Zimmerman, he would be alive today happily selling pot to his classmates. Some of you seem to be overlooking the fact that if Treyvon had just walked the short distance to his father's house and gone in, Zimmerman would most likely have realized that he belonged in the neighborhood and gone on his way.
    Last edited by HPL; 06-24-2012 at 12:35 AM.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
    (John Dewey)

    Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
    (George Washington)

    Gig'em Aggies!! BTCO'77HOO t.u.!!

    www.HughLieck.photoshelter.com

  4. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Can't say, don't know that man. Funny thing here is that I would have thought that you would be one to say that the residents of a neighborhood need to stand up and take responsibility of watching out for their neighbors. I really wish someone had followed and reported whoever broke into one of my rentals that we were renovating and stole ALL my power tools that had taken me years to accumulate or perhaps whoever stole (over a period of about four years) three of my lawnmowers, or perhaps the folks who stole the ac condenser unit from one of my neighbors, or the guy who broke into one of my renters and stole all their hunting equipment (the renters were wildlife PHd students) and so on and so on. Perhaps Treyvon was perfectly innocent, but considering the illegal activity that had apparently been taking place in the neighborhood, I think it was quite reasonable for Zimmerman to be suspicious of Treyvon and was also reasonable of him to attempt to keep track of him while waiting for the POlice to show up. As Treyvon was apparently less than a block from his home when he decided instead to confront Zimmerman, I suspect that Treyvon actually initiated the altercation. Even Treyvon's girlfriend's story would seem to me to indicate that Zimmerman hadn't approached Treyvon and that it was actually Treyvon who doubled back and confronted Zimmerman.

    I would also point out that Dudley Doright, although not smart, and a bit of a bumbler, as in fact, a straight arrow attempting to keep folks safe. You have always seemed like a law and order kind of guy to me by your posts and like the kind of person who would look out for his neighbors. Looks like I need to reassess that opinion.
    Ive been following these Trayvon Martin threads on POTUS and am shocked by many peoples take on this case. Its like coming up on a car wreck; you don't want to look; but your morbid curiosity gets the best of you.

    Many of the frequent posters on these threads have done everything they can and jumped to conclusionsto support anything Zimmerman did rather than waiting for the facts.
    HPL has made some value judgements on the case that he is pretty certain of. In spite of the fact that he obviously missed on his value judgements on Bora; he's obviously convinced he knows exactly what happened in Florida between TM and GZ.
    HPL has even somehow decided that TM's girlfriends statements even support that TM was somehow the aggressor!!! I'd love to hear the logic behind that one.
    Additionally HPL has gone so far as to call GZ a "straight arrow"!! Really, I mean REALLY!!! Have you seen this guys rap sheet? You have adifferent opinion of what is a straight arrow than I do. I generally don't classify people who have been charged with assalt on a LEO as a "Law & Order type" or a "Straight arrow" Particularily in light of the fact that in the instant case had he listened to the police, and stopped following this kid, when they told him that they didn't need him to be following this kid; then the whole incident may well have been avoided, and TM would still be alive.

    I'm sorry that you have suffered property losses, many or most of us have
    . I've just got to wonder why you bring that up. If you had had some wacked out neighborhood watch vigilante type kill a teenage kid eating skittles as he walked back to his dads house a block away would that somehow ameliorate your feelings on the loss of your tools?
    Ever heard of INSURANCE???

    Last but not least on the subject of "Law and Order" types; you and I obviously have different priorities on "Law & Order". If there were to be a couple of crime waves in my area one involving a rash of burglaries and the other involving vigilantes stalking and killing teenage boys eating candy and walking home to dads house, I'd be much more concerned with stopping the shooting of the teenagers. That would apply even if the teenagers were wearing hoodies and had gotten larger from their days as a 13 yr old football player up until their demise at the age of 17. My guess is that Mr Bora would agree with me on that

  5. #35
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    32

    Default

    "As opposed to hunting Trayvon,it was more like Zimmerman was trailing him."

    So what you are saying is TM didn't have the right to stand his ground???? This makes sense to you how?? Why is the responsibility to retreat on the stalked as opposed to the stalker?? Your logic makes no sense to me.

  6. #36
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Coastal Bend of Texas
    Posts
    2,636

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mjh345 View Post
    HPL has made some value judgements on the case that he is pretty certain of. In spite of the fact that he obviously missed on his value judgements on Bora; he's obviously convinced he knows exactly what happened in Florida between TM and GZ.
    HPL has even somehow decided that TM's girlfriends statements even support that TM was somehow the aggressor!!! I'd love to hear the logic behind that one.
    Additionally HPL has gone so far as to call GZ a "straight arrow"!! Really, I mean REALLY!!! Have you seen this guys rap sheet? You have adifferent opinion of what is a straight arrow than I do. I generally don't classify people who have been charged with assalt on a LEO as a "Law & Order type" or a "Straight arrow" Particularily in light of the fact that in the instant case had he listened to the police, and stopped following this kid, when they told him that they didn't need him to be following this kid; then the whole incident may well have been avoided, and TM would still be alive.

    I'm sorry that you have suffered property losses, many or most of us have
    . I've just got to wonder why you bring that up. If you had had some wacked out neighborhood watch vigilante type kill a teenage kid eating skittles as he walked back to his dads house a block away would that somehow ameliorate your feelings on the loss of your tools?
    Ever heard of INSURANCE???

    Last but not least on the subject of "Law and Order" types; you and I obviously have different priorities on "Law & Order". If there were to be a couple of crime waves in my area one involving a rash of burglaries and the other involving vigilantes stalking and killing teenage boys eating candy and walking home to dads house, I'd be much more concerned with stopping the shooting of the teenagers. That would apply even if the teenagers were wearing hoodies and had gotten larger from their days as a 13 yr old football player up until their demise at the age of 17. My guess is that Mr Bora would agree with me on that
    Hardly know where to begin, so let me start here; Ken's statement really surprised because it has been my opinion that Ken is probably the type of fellow who, if he lived in a neighborhood that had been experiencing a series of break-ins and he spotted a suspicious looking fellow (day or night, rain or clear) would call the police AND then try to keep the person in view until the police arrived (actually, it's my suspicion that Ken would probably call the cops and then walk up, introduce himself, and attempt to find out why the person was there, but I could be wrong). So far, with the exception of actually confronting the guy, that's what Zimmerman says that he did, and that sounds to me like doing one's civic duty and being a good neighbor. I know that the popular thing these days, and maybe even the smart thing to do is to either just keep driving saying to yourself, "not my business", or call the cops and then drive on letting the gubment take care of you. Personally, I hope that my neighbors would choose to report and attempt to watch the situation until the police arrived (sounds a lot like what Zimmerman claims to have been doing). So that 's why I was a bit surprised at Ken's comment.

    mjh345 needs to improve his/her reading skills. At no point did I say that Zimmerman was a strait arrow. What I said was that as I recall, Dudley Doright was a strait arrow, implying that it is a bit strange to hear the term "Dudley Doright" used as a pejorative in that context.

    Trayvon's girlfriend's statement would seem to corroborate Zimmerman's statement that Trayvon initiated the contact and accosted him.

    It seems to me that in part of Zimmerman's statement he said that he had in fact broken off trailing Trayvon and was on his way back to his truck when Trayvon basically jumped him, initiating the attack, so it seems likely to me that had Trayvon simply gone on home, instead of initiating a physical attack, he would still be alive.

    Insurance? Ever heard of deductibles? Mine is based on the value of my house and so far, I haven't collected a penny as I am responsible for the first approx $1500.00 of any individual loss. Three, $350.00+ lawnmowers stolen one at a time, all out of my pocket. Approx $1200.00 worth of power tools, my pocket, etc.

    As to Zimmerman being "some wacked out vigilante" who stalked some little, innocent kid just standing around minding his own business eating skittles, then finally shooting him down in cold blood, the evidence that has been published just doesn't support that. As Zimmerman tells it and as much of the available evidence seems to indicate, TRAYVON ATTACKED Zimmerman and then and only then did Zimmerman pull his firearm and shoot (and he only shot once, so, not out to kill Trayvon, just trying to keep Trayvon from killing him). As far as that goes, if one of my neighbors actually does shoot some 14 yearold breaking into their house, you can bet that I'll be at the head of the line to shake his hand.


    Quote Originally Posted by Olliedog View Post
    "As opposed to hunting Trayvon,it was more like Zimmerman was trailing him."

    So what you are saying is TM didn't have the right to stand his ground???? This makes sense to you how?? Why is the responsibility to retreat on the stalked as opposed to the stalker?? Your logic makes no sense to me.
    You say stalking, I say keeping an eye on a suspicious character until police arrived. I think you misunderstand the concept of stand your ground. If I think someone is following me I have the right to ask them why, they don't have to answer, and I certainly don't have the right to initiate an assault on them. The instant I escalate to an assault, they have the right to "stand their ground". Zimmerman was breaking no laws by keeping an eye on Trayvon until the police arrived. Trayvon was breaking the law the instant he assaulted Zimmerman. If Zimmerman's account is correct and he had quit trailing Trayvon and started back to his truck to get his cellphone, then Trayvon REALLY had no reason at all to attack Zimmerman AND once Trayvon initiated an assault, THEN Zimmerman may have had the right to use deadly force. When I was in college we had a good friend who was a prosecutor and I can remember her saying that although there were times where you have justifiable homicide, there was no such thing as "justifiable assault". Trayvon made a terrible decision when he decided to attack Zimmerman. He paid a terrible price. He should have gone home instead of confronting Zimmerman who, it seems to me was within his rights to surveil someone he thought was acting suspiciously, especially since he had called the police and alerted them to the situation.
    Last edited by HPL; 06-24-2012 at 04:57 PM. Reason: grammar, spelling
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
    (John Dewey)

    Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
    (George Washington)

    Gig'em Aggies!! BTCO'77HOO t.u.!!

    www.HughLieck.photoshelter.com

  7. #37
    Senior Member gmhr1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    3,732

    Default

    Z did have a right to stand his ground he didn't do anything that tm had a right to assault him for. if tm felt hat he was being followed he should have called his family members that were less than seventy yards away and ask them to step out the door or better yet hang up on your girlfriend and call police . Having been robbed its not about insurance it's about being violated and it does make you more aware of strangers. The gated community he lived in had a lot of robberies committed by young black kids of course z would take notice of tm he was acting weird like he was on drugs. I don't know what that means but it will all come out at trial.
    Last edited by gmhr1; 06-24-2012 at 03:20 PM.
    GMHR Riparian Bearly Behavin MH QAA (FC AFC Rebel with A Cause X AFC Bams Liberty Belle MH )
    GMHR Gadwalls Nightmare (MHR Tanglewood Iron Dago x Wind River Poppin Pepper)
    MHR Highlands Bearcat (FC AFC Suncrest Bear X GMHR Gadwalls Nightmare)
    Croppers Gold Dust (NAFC FC M D's Cotton Pick' N Cropper X Hunka Papas Chardonnay JH )

  8. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    N.E. Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,018

    Default

    Wonder if TM thought Z was a robber. TIC
    charly

    There ought to be one day -- just one -- when there is open season on Congressmen.
    ~Will Rogers~

  9. #39
    Senior Member gmhr1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    3,732

    Default

    well if he did he didnt hang up with his girlfriend and call the police. Wouldn't she have called 911 when she claims the phone went dead and she wasn't able to reach him again. Shouldn't she have called police or his family and said hey some creep is outside your door stalking your brother and now I can't reach him. Wouldn't you think someone in that house would have said tm went to get me a tea hours ago and hasn't come home yet. They didn't seem very worried about him or they didn't want the police involved.
    Last edited by gmhr1; 06-24-2012 at 03:57 PM.
    GMHR Riparian Bearly Behavin MH QAA (FC AFC Rebel with A Cause X AFC Bams Liberty Belle MH )
    GMHR Gadwalls Nightmare (MHR Tanglewood Iron Dago x Wind River Poppin Pepper)
    MHR Highlands Bearcat (FC AFC Suncrest Bear X GMHR Gadwalls Nightmare)
    Croppers Gold Dust (NAFC FC M D's Cotton Pick' N Cropper X Hunka Papas Chardonnay JH )

  10. #40
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Burlington, Vermont
    Posts
    11,257

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Hardly know where to begin, so let me start here; Ken's statement really surprised because it has been my opinion that Ken is probably the type of fellow who, if he lived in a neighborhood that had been experiencing a series of break-ins and he spotted a suspicious looking fellow (day or night, rain or clear) would call the police AND then try to keep the person in view until the police arrived (actually, it's my suspicion that Ken would probably call the cops and then walk up, introduce himself, and attempt to find out why the person was there, but I could be wrong).
    you nailed the bold underline, as for the 911 part. I aint never reported skittle eatin'
    I get home after 9pm. I walk my dogs at night all the time. I even have a black hoodie.
    I walk up to and chat with folk at night, in the dark, with my dogs.
    And a valad what if.... what if dead child thought Z was a robber? Be nice to be able to ask him.
    Z shoulda stayed in his car like the police told him.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •