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Proven Chessie Studs?

35K views 168 replies 43 participants last post by  Scott R. 
#1 · (Edited)
Looking to have my 3yo HRCH Bitch bred and trying to do all of my homework and cover all the bases as to what all is out there stud wise in the Chessie World. Within the next week or two I hope to have all her test and health clearances taken care of and hopefully I'll be ready to get a breeding lined up. So for all you chessie people what all is out there as far as PROVEN studs? I'm new to breeding so just trying to be thorough. Any suggestions? BTW I am not opposed to driving or AI. Thanks
 
#2 · (Edited)
Be a lot easier to know her breeding and DM status.
Also what you are looking for in the way of pups - gun dogs, show dogs, hunt test or field trial or dual or ?
Also what characteristics does your dog have a lot of and what characteristics is it lacking or could use some help with. ie. need more stamina, better marking, better attention, better memory, ....

You can get an idea of what is available from these websites:
http://www.amchessieclub.org/ads/stud.php
http://teamchesapeake.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/3641041781
http://www.chessieinfo.net/stud-dogs.htm

Also, look back at the test/trials you have been to, any dogs there look good to you? Check out the sire of those that looked good and see if they are still available.

You can also search Lisa's database for proven studs:
http://www.chessieinfo.net/search-database-2.htm
enter **** in the search string and set the search field to "pre title"

Hope that helps

T. Mac
 
#3 ·
Good post T Mac!!!!

Also talk with the breeders that have been breeding the type of dog you're looking for, for a very long time. They can offer you a wealth of insight. Just make sure you have a cold one next to you when you're making those calls. You'll be on the phone a while. :D

Angie
 
#4 · (Edited)
Not many straws left but I would give anything now to have a Curry pup.........Call John Ackerman......

Pm me if you make this X......would love to see your girls pedigree
 
#5 ·
#6 ·
Also a good pick.. Jim
 
#8 ·
It's hard in chessies to find a proven stud. Yes Curry has some pups running trials that are QAA. Chester is the only FC male but all his breedings are to young to tell. Julie Cole has a very nice male and then there is The Knapps male that is a proven stud. Comet is out of that male. Haven't seen many Gunner pups running but he is a nice dog. But maybe someone around your area who has chessies can give you some input. All these breedngs will be artifical and you might want aa natural for your first dogs breeding.
 
#9 ·
Thanks for the replys and I've gotten some really nice leads on studs through PM's. Here's the pedigree for my bitch. I'm not sure about whats safe as far as breeding within the same gene pool... How far does one need to go back? Defintely breeding gun dogs/hunt test dogs. Thanks again and any advice or suggestions are appreciated. Sorry but if I come off as ignorant it's because I am :razz:

Dam

By mattduncan82 at 2012-06-30

Sire

By mattduncan82 at 2012-06-30
 
#10 · (Edited)
Thanks for posting Koda's pedigree. It gives a much better understanding of your chore in looking for a stud.

The most important thing for you right now is to get her DM status checked. Go to the OFA website and order the DM DNA test kit. http://www.offa.org/dnatesting/dm.html
Be aware that based on her pedigree that she has a better than 50% chance of being a carrier. Looking at her dam's side of the pedigree; Bell was untested but Bell's sire was was at risk and Bell's dam, Tana, was untested but was from Tiger who was afflicted so Tana must be at least a carrier. Hence Bell must be at least a carrier and very good probability of being at risk. With the lack of health clearances in Koda's pedigree especially on her sire's side it is hard to get a good grasp of a health pedigree. So Koda may even come back as at risk for DM. For a link to Tiger's story and videos on DM got to this website: http://www.chesapeakebayretriever.info/dm.htm

So much for the good news. I've tried to find some way to sugar coat this but cant find the words to do it.
You will need to look very hard at what it is you are attempting to gain in breeding your bitch. Assuming that at best she has a DM carrier status, you will be severely limited in your breeding options as you will need to find a DM clear male. And DM clear males with a strong field pedigree are fairly hard to find. Odds are you will not find one in your general area. Even without this criteria in today's Chessie world the best pedigree you will find for a live breeding will be a Ch/MH or maybe a Ch/QAA dog. Keep in mind that even with her HRCH and if all other health clearances are good, Koda will be a tough sell with her pedigree and a DM carrier status (or worse) when you are trying to find a high caliber stud. So when you do find a stud there is a good chance you will either need to ship your dog to the stud or do an AI. If she is due in soon, heat limitations may limit/preclude shipping her based on airline weather restrictions either on your end or on the stud's end so you will be limited to an AI. With costs for all the health tests, AI or shipping fees, stud fee, etc. you are looking at a breeding/whelping cost of $3-4000 depending on stud fee and no unforeseen circumstances (c section, etc). Factoring in the whelp and post whelp care you will have close to $5000 invested in this litter.

Now the hard part, how much do you expect to get for your pups? Depending again on stud (assuming a Ch/MH or Ch/QAA dog) and a DM carrier clearances, and today's economy, and assuming all her other health clearances are normal, you are probably looking at the $6-800 range for a pup. Picking a stud with a lessor pedigree will further lower you price expectation per pup. This will result in you needing a litter of at least 6 to break even. This is very close to normal litter size for chessies. What do you do if you only produce a litter of 3? Or if she resorbs the litter at 5 weeks? Or you encounter any of a host of other calamities that might and do occur? (Ask me what I spent, both financially and emotionally, on an AI breeding to a DC that produced a litter of 1 delivered by c-section yielding a pup that I had to put down by age 2.)

Please believe me when I tell you that if you are planning this breeding looking for a free pup, you will be better off just finding a good breeding with good health clearances and pedigree and buying a pup.

T. Mac
 
#32 ·
Now the hard part, how much do you expect to get for your pups? Depending again on stud (assuming a Ch/MH or Ch/QAA dog) and a DM carrier clearances, and today's economy, and assuming all her other health clearances are normal, you are probably looking at the $6-800 range for a pup. Picking a stud with a lessor pedigree will further lower you price expectation per pup. This will result in you needing a litter of at least 6 to break even. This is very close to normal litter size for chessies. What do you do if you only produce a litter of 3? Or if she resorbs the litter at 5 weeks? Or you encounter any of a host of other calamities that might and do occur? (Ask me what I spent, both financially and emotionally, on an AI breeding to a DC that produced a litter of 1 delivered by c-section yielding a pup that I had to put down by age 2.)
T. Mac
Not sure where you are getting these prices from. Thor is DM at risk but has all other clearances and was just a MH and he sired 4 litters over the past year and all the pups sold for $1,000. He also has a couple titled offspring. Only 1 bitch he was bred to had a title and she has a senior title.
Now my Graicie was just a Senior hunter and she is DM at Risk. Thor is her sire and her dam doesnt have a title for 3 generations. She has 2 titled offspring from her first breeding. I got $1300 a pup when I bred her to a clear MH *** and $1300 a pup when I bred her to a carrier MH. Now Gracie has her MH and people are waiting for me to breed her again. They dont care who I breed her too or the DM status they want a pup. She will not be bred till fall 2013 the earliest. I kept a pup from my Gracie X Scout Breeding a At risk to carrier breeding and still havent DM tested her yet.
 
#12 ·
T.Mac thank you. I didn't have the guts to tell him. I hope he appreciates your honesty with him. T.Mac my hats off to you.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Tmac- thanks for your very informative post. I already have the DM test and this coming week it will be getting done along with eic, hips, and elbows. I have seen a couple clear dogs that I wouldnt mind doing a breeding with and there is a very impressive clear 500pt+ male located very close. Obviosly I havent put a price on pups yet due to Kodas testing isnt done and I havent comitted to any particular stud. That being said I have no intentions of getting rich off a litter. What it really boils down to is right now everything is riding on the outcome off her DM test. Thank you for the advice. Thats why this thread is here.
 
#15 ·
T.Mac, although I agree with 99% of your input on this thread, I would disagree with your statement "The most important thing for you right now is to get her DM status checked." Are you saying DM now trumps eyes and hips? If so, our narrow gene pool just got a whole lot narrower on a condition that testing still cannot prove a conclusive outcome. Just my opinion, as there are many on this topic. PM me if you'd like.
 
#16 ·
I think you're taking T Macs post a little out of context. I read it as him assuming the eyes, hips and lets not forget elbows were done all ready. Which are your usual standard tests that everyone needs to do before breeding. Though I do see not as many chessie folks get their dogs elbows done as the lab people do. Which I think is a mistake.

Another good post T Mac.

Matt why not give Carol Anderson a call? She can help you out and knows your dogs pedigree.

Angie
 
#17 ·
If Ontario is not to far. Once all tests are done Larry wood from Windsor ( Canadian side by Detroit) or Henry goeree ( skeetercreek ) chessies could likely help you out. I know larrys dog get down your way running HRC once in awhile. Guts down that way will know him/ his dogs. Wayne dibbley ran them.
 
#18 ·
Not really my breed but names that pop-up time after time in the stats
FC Colonial Outer Banks Winchester MH (Chester)
Atlas goes to War Larry Sarek
Fireweed in ID
 
#19 ·
Angie, sorry I read it differently. I try not to "assume" too much, but yes, I would think the hips and eyes were done!! The majority of the "context" in that post was about DM.
 
#20 ·
That is sort of how I read it as well. The DM test should be used in consideration although, should not be an end all for a breeding. If one stives to breed a clear x clear on everything we'll not have a single decent Chessie left. Our DM affected and carrier dogs have brought WAY too much to the table to be written off so easily. Weighing the merits and OVERALL quality of what the dog is passing along is of upmost importance. Generally speaking, I'd be willing to put a bet down that says that the overwhelming majority of our BEST field dogs are at minimum DM carriers. Are there exceptions? yes. Are there a lot of exceptions? no.

Too many breeders are using the DM status now as a scare tactic to unknowing buyers who don't fully understand neither the testing or, the disease. I've heard a breeder telling a person they shouldn't buy puppies who "have DM" and the only way to be safe is to buy a puppy from parents who are both DM Clear. People are using "half truths" because they are breeding two DM Clear dogs and not giving the new potential owners a decent understanding of how DM can be passed along and the differences between affected / carrier / clear........ This kind of misinformation is a detriment to the breed and giving new Chesapeake owners a start on the wrong foot.

With that being said, should someone be breeding a DM affected x DM affected? HELL NO>
 
#24 ·
I didn't see it that way because I'm pretty sure I have a decent understanding of where T-mac comes from although, folks that don't know "us" as well may not see it that way...
 
#29 ·
You should add PRA to the alphabet soup. It can be done by "parentage".

Breeding, picking puppies and genetics are all gambles.
Thank God for breeders. They allow us buyers to do the easy and the cheapist part. Buy a puppy!

Tim
 
#26 ·
I am not a breeder but I would do hips and elbows first. Those results if good then test eye, EIC & DM. Bad hips you may not want to breed. Save some money.
 
#27 ·
Going to go out on a limb and say that Mike owns a very, very nice Chessie male in Larry. I've seen him run and train numerous times and he's a wonderful dog. Talented, great temperment and super working attitude.

M
 
#28 ·
Times 2!!! What Miriam said! MH and QAA and running AA stakes! Mike, I hope you are ok with the recommendation?


Chris
 
#31 · (Edited)
T. Mac- I don't know where you got the idea that I want to breed my bitch to get a pup for myself but that is not the case. I will not be breeding to anything other than DM clear studs reguardless of how my bitches results come back. There are enough good clear studs around for me not to. The idea reguarding my bitches pedigee is too soft to bother breeding is absurd IMO. This is not the labrador world and our gene pool is pretty small. I do understand why I need a stud with a strong pedigree to make up for what my bitches pedigree is lacking to taylor to folks that shop pedigrees rather than puppies. I know neither my bitches sire or dam were titled in any way they also never ran any test or trials, both dogs (owned by the same guy) are legit gun dogs and are definatley capable of passing an HRC finished test. Looking at current breedings everything is focused on this stud or that, not very many litters out there offering a bitch that is more than a SH most being JH or not titled at all. Buying a pup is a crap shoot of what you are going to end up with reguardless of titles in a pedigree. In a breed that is not watered down to extent of other retriever breeds this is obviously not as big of a concern. For example- My bitch with her so called weak pedigree has breezed through training and breezed through every test she's seen. Koda is very eager to please, a good marker, a team player, has an amazing temperment, and I couldn't ask for more out of a gundog/hunt test dog. From what I have gathered from you, with Koda coming from her pedigree I have a miracle dog and should probably start playing the lottery. Correct me if I took you the wrong way. That being said I do appreciate some of your advice. My main concern is obviously healthy puppies. So thats where I'll start. BTW not looking to get rich off of a litter and if I was worried about losing money on dogs I wouldn't be playing the game.
 
#33 ·
Matt, I commend you for doing your research and sounds like you are well aware of both the breed's health and genetic problems as well as the small gene pool. It sounds like you have a very nice female worth breeding--if I liked a bitch and how she worked and liked the sire she was bred to, I would not let her pedigree dissuade me as chances are with Chesapeakes, quite a few of them might've been very good working dogs even if on paper they have no titles or health clearances. Far too many Chesapeakes, especially the females, are too soft to train to the higher levels. And, OK, I'll say it....breeding a female because you want one of her pups is, in my opinion, the #1 reason to breed.
 
#34 ·
Right now there are plenty of good breedings out there, You need to look. Chester FC (carrier) to Minsi MH (clear) etc. Comet has been breed. You only have to look. The Shaws have a female Stevie QAA looking to breed her soon. Wonderful female.
 
#36 ·
and the average person will not have a shot at these pups. chester and minsi litter was pretty much sold out to a select few the breeding took place. I am sure is Stevie is bred the same will go for that.
The minsi and chester breedeing produced 4 clear pupies and 4 carrier pups and 1 has to be redone. The people getting the pups dont want to know the dm status until after they have decided what pup they want.

How is that plenty of good breedings? You just named 2 that actually have pups and neither one was adverticed anywhere. Whenever there is a good chessie field breeding you have to be in the know to get a pup or they are all gone well before the litter is whelped.
 
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