The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 3 of 18 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 171

Thread: Proven Chessie Studs?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Matt Duncan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    That is sort of how I read it as well. The DM test should be used in consideration although, should not be an end all for a breeding. If one stives to breed a clear x clear on everything we'll not have a single decent Chessie left. Our DM affected and carrier dogs have brought WAY too much to the table to be written off so easily. Weighing the merits and OVERALL quality of what the dog is passing along is of upmost importance. Generally speaking, I'd be willing to put a bet down that says that the overwhelming majority of our BEST field dogs are at minimum DM carriers. Are there exceptions? yes. Are there a lot of exceptions? no.

    Too many breeders are using the DM status now as a scare tactic to unknowing buyers who don't fully understand neither the testing or, the disease. I've heard a breeder telling a person they shouldn't buy puppies who "have DM" and the only way to be safe is to buy a puppy from parents who are both DM Clear. People are using "half truths" because they are breeding two DM Clear dogs and not giving the new potential owners a decent understanding of how DM can be passed along and the differences between affected / carrier / clear........ This kind of misinformation is a detriment to the breed and giving new Chesapeake owners a start on the wrong foot.

    With that being said, should someone be breeding a DM affected x DM affected? HELL NO>
    I couldn't agree more.
    HRCH Walkers Puddle Jumpin Koda "Koda"
    SHR Duncan's Haulin a Limit "Limit"
    Bourbon Bay's Other Woman "Jolene"

  2. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Aubrey TX
    Posts
    5,880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Symons View Post
    Angie, sorry I read it differently. I try not to "assume" too much, but yes, I would think the hips and eyes were done!! The majority of the "context" in that post was about DM.
    True,,,, it's a hot topic in the breed. Just like EIC is in labradors. In time it will calm down.

    Angie

  3. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Aubrey TX
    Posts
    5,880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    That is sort of how I read it as well. The DM test should be used in consideration although, should not be an end all for a breeding. If one stives to breed a clear x clear on everything we'll not have a single decent Chessie left. Our DM affected and carrier dogs have brought WAY too much to the table to be written off so easily. Weighing the merits and OVERALL quality of what the dog is passing along is of upmost importance. Generally speaking, I'd be willing to put a bet down that says that the overwhelming majority of our BEST field dogs are at minimum DM carriers. Are there exceptions? yes. Are there a lot of exceptions? no.

    Too many breeders are using the DM status now as a scare tactic to unknowing buyers who don't fully understand neither the testing or, the disease. I've heard a breeder telling a person they shouldn't buy puppies who "have DM" and the only way to be safe is to buy a puppy from parents who are both DM Clear. People are using "half truths" because they are breeding two DM Clear dogs and not giving the new potential owners a decent understanding of how DM can be passed along and the differences between affected / carrier / clear........ This kind of misinformation is a detriment to the breed and giving new Chesapeake owners a start on the wrong foot.

    With that being said, should someone be breeding a DM affected x DM affected? HELL NO>
    I don't think that's where T Mac was going with his post. DM was the focus but I see him trying to educate and give some realistic scenarios to the outcome of the litter and it's sale if Matt should decide to breed.

    I'm all about breeding carriers. So you're preaching to the choir there.

    Angie

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Fall City, WA
    Posts
    4,622

    Default

    I didn't see it that way because I'm pretty sure I have a decent understanding of where T-mac comes from although, folks that don't know "us" as well may not see it that way...

  5. #25
    Senior Member Matt Duncan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    191

    Default

    Just to be clear. All testing will be done this coming week. I already have the DM kit along with that she will be getting hips and elbows done through ofa, EIC test, and cerf.
    HRCH Walkers Puddle Jumpin Koda "Koda"
    SHR Duncan's Haulin a Limit "Limit"
    Bourbon Bay's Other Woman "Jolene"

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    1,201

    Default

    I am not a breeder but I would do hips and elbows first. Those results if good then test eye, EIC & DM. Bad hips you may not want to breed. Save some money.
    Gentle in what you do. Firm in how you do it.

    CH SILVERCREEK MURRAY SAMUEL (MURRAY) WDQ CGC MH *** 2/16/00 - 12/26/12
    WESTWIND WHISPERING COVE (LARRY son of Murray) WDQ MH ***
    LPK DELAWARE RIVER WHISPERING COVE **(SAVAGE SAM son of FC Chester MH)
    WESTWIND WHISPERING COVE JAY ** ( Larry's son and Murray's grandson)

  7. #27
    Senior Member Miriam Wade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    3,477

    Default

    Going to go out on a limb and say that Mike owns a very, very nice Chessie male in Larry. I've seen him run and train numerous times and he's a wonderful dog. Talented, great temperment and super working attitude.

    M
    "You can put pressure on a dog, you canít take it backÖ"

    Mitch Patterson '07

    MHR Wadin's Katie Lied CD, SH, WCX (11/25/93-1/27/07 Rest Well Kate)
    Brassfire's Brass in Pocket JH, WCX ** (4 Master passes)
    Brassfire's New England Patriot (New Pup!!!)

  8. #28
    Senior Member Chris Videtto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    888

    Default

    Times 2!!! What Miriam said! MH and QAA and running AA stakes! Mike, I hope you are ok with the recommendation?


    Chris
    __________________________________________________ _____________

    Brownstone's Harley- "Harley" 7/29/2009 (By CH Woodhull's Roger That)
    Maple Hill's Ella Enchanted- "Ella" 8/30/2011 (By FC AFC Land Ahoy)

  9. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    owings mills, md
    Posts
    1,496

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Duncan View Post
    Just to be clear. All testing will be done this coming week. I already have the DM kit along with that she will be getting hips and elbows done through ofa, EIC test, and cerf.
    You should add PRA to the alphabet soup. It can be done by "parentage".

    Breeding, picking puppies and genetics are all gambles.
    Thank God for breeders. They allow us buyers to do the easy and the cheapist part. Buy a puppy!

    Tim
    You order a Lab; ask a Golden; but negotiate with a Chesapeake!

  10. #30
    Senior Member T. Mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Out West
    Posts
    1,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    That is sort of how I read it as well. The DM test should be used in consideration although, should not be an end all for a breeding. If one stives to breed a clear x clear on everything we'll not have a single decent Chessie left. Our DM affected and carrier dogs have brought WAY too much to the table to be written off so easily. Weighing the merits and OVERALL quality of what the dog is passing along is of upmost importance. Generally speaking, I'd be willing to put a bet down that says that the overwhelming majority of our BEST field dogs are at minimum DM carriers. Are there exceptions? yes. Are there a lot of exceptions? no.

    Too many breeders are using the DM status now as a scare tactic to unknowing buyers who don't fully understand neither the testing or, the disease. I've heard a breeder telling a person they shouldn't buy puppies who "have DM" and the only way to be safe is to buy a puppy from parents who are both DM Clear. People are using "half truths" because they are breeding two DM Clear dogs and not giving the new potential owners a decent understanding of how DM can be passed along and the differences between affected / carrier / clear........ This kind of misinformation is a detriment to the breed and giving new Chesapeake owners a start on the wrong foot.

    With that being said, should someone be breeding a DM affected x DM affected? HELL NO>
    The answer to your question is as you say HELL NO BUT the question you should be asking is "should you breed carrier to carrier or at risk to carrier?" From my status point even the potential of producing 25% afflicted (Carrier to carrier) can be too much and would require major offsetting criteria in the pedigree. Items I do not see in the pedigree that Matt provided. And again please note there is a big difference in "afflicted" and "at risk".

    About the only thing one can devine with respect to health status based on the pedigrees Matt provided is the DM status of Matt's bitch - that she has a very high probability of being a DM carrier and very possibly DM at risk. Thus, again based on pedigree analysis, DM status of the stud becomes what should be the rate limiting step assuming all else comes up normal. The stud must be a clear if you do not want to produce any at risk pups. And at $65 for the DM test, it is the cheapest test out there. Perhaps if the DM test comes back "At Risk" Matt would have second thoughts about this breeding. There is not enough data in the pedigree to make any other assumptions as far as hips or eyes or any other characteristic.

    Paul, you just bred Kaie to Rebel, which looks to be a very good breeding with great potential. Perhaps you can reflect a bit on your stud selection process BUT in this case base your considerations on if Kaie were a DM carrier rather than the DM clear that she is. If this were the case I suspect you would have selected a different stud dog. Plus with a DM carrier status I'd bet you would have had a very hard time convincing Rebel's owners to consent to the breeding. With a "clear" bitch you have "carte blanche" in picking just about any sire. However, the more carrier statuses your bitch has, the greater the restrictions become on that breeding pool. With a DM carrier bitch looking for a good field pedigree stud is difficult as there are only 5-6 DM clear stud dogs out there. If you know of more let me know because my DM carrier bitch is due in next month.

    The intent of my post to Matt was to suggest that if he is pursuing this breeding in order to get a new pup, that if he were to take the $3-400 for OFA films, $200 for the Optigen test, $50-60 for Cerf,stud fee, etc. he would have a enough to purchase a new pup with good to excellent pedigree that should be DM clear and PRA clear by parentage. Heck, he could even buy one of your pups and get change back! If he were pursuing this breeding to make $$ the probability is that he will spend much more than he makes.

    Perhaps my previous post was more slanted toward this criteria as it is what is forefront in my thought processes as of late? But it is the same thought process that Matt or any other carrier status bitch owner should go through in trying to find the right stud. The hardest part of the breeding process is to recognize the flaws in your own dog and to try to find a mate who will offset (or at least not compound) those flaws.

    PLEASE, everyone who reads this, note that every dog has flaws. The purpose of ethical breeding is to try to minamize these flaws as much as it is to maximize the desired traits. All breedings are a gamble, you are just trying to maximize your odds.

    T. Mac
    Last edited by T. Mac; 07-01-2012 at 03:57 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •