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Thread: If you have a business, you didn't build that

  1. #111
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    The lie is that Obama said that business owners didn't create their business. Everyone with an open mind should know by now that he said that the small businessman didn't put all the infrastructure in place that the small business depends on. This the government didn't invent the internet was just done to discredit Obama further with his statement (in the speech that he was misquoted from) that government research was responsible for the internet.
    I have watched and read Obama's full statement multiple times (much as it makes me want to retch) and it is simply dead wrong to say that he was "misquoted". He was not. One might argue that some are misinterpreting his meaning, but he certainly has not been misquoted anywhere that I have seen. He said those words, in that order. If he didn't mean what he said, he should either fire his speechwriters or quit going off script. As I have written earlier, I am dead certain that he meant those words just as they were strung together. I fully believe that he doesn't respect personal initiative and effort. I believe that he truly believes that success is normally due to luck or influence. I believe that he believes that those that haven't "made it" in our society are "disadvantaged" and thus not culpable for their lot in life. I believe that when he spoke of a fundamental change in his first presidential campaign, that a change in the fundamentals of how this country runs was exactly what he was talking about.

    Perhaps the article about the internet was an attempt to weaken Obama's chances to win in November, but there is no reason to blame that article on Romney or even link him to it. Show me proof that he in some way had it written or influenced the tenor of the article and then maybe you have a point, otherwise you can as the saying goes "pound sand".
    Last edited by HPL; 07-24-2012 at 04:52 PM.
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  2. #112
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    The lie is that Obama said that business owners didn't create their business. Everyone with an open mind should know by now that he said that the small businessman didn't put all the infrastructure in place that the small business depends on. This the government didn't invent the internet was just done to discredit Obama further with his statement (in the speech that he was misquoted from) that government research was responsible for the internet.
    One more time:
    1) Taxes paid for that infrastructure development. Taxes that were paid by ...
    2) That infrastructure, paid for with taxes, are now available to everyone; even those who pay no taxes.
    3) His statement carries the implication that ANYone (just as smart, just as hard-working) could do this. But only some do. The ones who do ARE different than those who DO NOT. They should be role models, not pillaged.
    4) So, if someone made the best of the opportunity and accumulated some wealth (while also creating wealth for others through the jobs created), why should the rest of us feel we are "entitled" to a larger portion of that wealth ... while we didn't grasp the opportunity ourselves?
    5) We are NOT talking about Warren Buffett here ... we are talking about business-owners whose businesses earn as little as $250K; income which is counted as income even if the owner puts that $ back into his business.

    I truly believe that someone like Obama who never held a private sector job of any consequence simply does not understand what it's like to run a business that MUST be run on a budget.
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  3. #113
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    One more time:
    1) Taxes paid for that infrastructure development. Taxes that were paid by ...
    2) That infrastructure, paid for with taxes, are now available to everyone; even those who pay no taxes.
    3) His statement carries the implication that ANYone (just as smart, just as hard-working) could do this. But only some do. The ones who do ARE different than those who DO NOT. They should be role models, not pillaged.
    4) So, if someone made the best of the opportunity and accumulated some wealth (while also creating wealth for others through the jobs created), why should the rest of us feel we are "entitled" to a larger portion of that wealth ... while we didn't grasp the opportunity ourselves?
    5) We are NOT talking about Warren Buffett here ... we are talking about business-owners whose businesses earn as little as $250K; income which is counted as income even if the owner puts that $ back into his business.

    I truly believe that someone like Obama who never held a private sector job of any consequence simply does not understand what it's like to run a business that MUST be run on a budget.
    This was a huge monumental BLUNDER by the smartest man on the planet.

    It has, is and will cost him.
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  4. #114
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    The lie is that Obama said that business owners didn't create their business. Everyone with an open mind should know by now that he said that the small businessman didn't put all the infrastructure in place that the small business depends on. This the government didn't invent the internet was just done to discredit Obama further with his statement (in the speech that he was misquoted from) that government research was responsible for the internet.
    Buzz, you are flat out wrong on this one. Opinions are fine and are what makes POTUS Place. Obama was not misquoted, taken out of context or misunderstood. He said it and I believe he meant every word.
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  5. #115
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    This was a huge monumental BLUNDER by the smartest man on the planet.

    It has, is and will cost him.
    And he, or his speech-writers, went to the trouble of plagiarizing it, almost verbatim, from Elizabeth Warren. Since she (or her speech-writers) dreamed up the idea, does that make her smarter than he is?
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  6. #116
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    Buzz, you are flat out wrong on this one. Opinions are fine and are what makes POTUS Place. Obama was not misquoted, taken out of context or misunderstood. He said it and I believe he meant every word.

    Whatever...
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  7. #117
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    One more time:

    I know, I'm pretty dense, but I appreciate your patience.


    1) Taxes paid for that infrastructure development. Taxes that were paid by ...

    Yes, our parents and grandparents paid taxes and built a country that provides us ALL with the opportunity to make it. But today while taxes are lower than they have been in 80-90 years, the conservatives want to complain about their tax burden. In my view they care little about passing on the country our ancestors passed to us, it's all me me me, let me keep ALL MY MONEY.

    2) That infrastructure, paid for with taxes, are now available to everyone; even those who pay no taxes.

    I think that's the point. There has been infrastructure and a system built that provides opportunity for those currently trying to make their mark. You state it like that's a bad thing or something.


    3) His statement carries the implication that ANYone (just as smart, just as hard-working) could do this. But only some do. The ones who do ARE different than those who DO NOT. They should be role models, not pillaged.

    So, you don't believe that in America anyone can make it? I'm sorry... So, in your opinion, if they are "just as smart, just as hard working" then what is it that they lack? Yes, they should be role models, but the example they are setting is, country be damned, it's all about me me me.

    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48



    4) So, if someone made the best of the opportunity and accumulated some wealth (while also creating wealth for others through the jobs created), why should the rest of us feel we are "entitled" to a larger portion of that wealth ... while we didn't grasp the opportunity ourselves?

    Do you believe that everyone makes use of and profits from our system and infrastructure in exact proportion to their income? I don't.

    5) We are NOT talking about Warren Buffett here ... we are talking about business-owners whose businesses earn as little as $250K; income which is counted as income even if the owner puts that $ back into his business.

    I don't know what you're talking about here. What does the businessman making "as little as" $250k have to do with it? Obama proposes those tax cuts to be extended to everyone on their earnings up to $250k. In the income above $250k their "marginal rate" will increase from 35% to 39.6%. So, if you make "as little as" $300k, that will increase your income by $50k x 4.6% = $2,300. If your income is "as little as" $400,000, your taxes will increase by $150,000 x 4.6% = $6,900. I bet that'll make them want to throw in the towel and just stop creating jobs! I know it would be enough for me to shrug & go all Galt and everything.

    Yes, if you are incorporated as a pass-through, you pay taxes on your income, then you can invest it into your business. But if you buy capital equipment, you can write off the depreciation against gross in the future, reducing future tax bills.

    I truly believe that someone like Obama who never held a private sector job of any consequence simply does not understand what it's like to run a business that MUST be run on a budget.

    I see no comparison between a government and a business. Why should the government not borrow money at negative effective interest rates (yes you read that right, negative) and spend it on infrastructure? Investors are willing to actually PAY the US Government to hold on to their money for them at this time. See below:


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    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  8. #118
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Another article stating that Crovitz is FOS.

    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...-the-internet/


    It is really telling that Romeny needed to resort to a lie and misquote Obama to make up one of his main points of attack against him.
    I'm curious as to which administration first granted the research money, Bush41 or Clinton? Because if it was Clinton, then Al Gore is a big fat liar!

    Buzz, you bring up taxes. When I see, hear and read of the Government's corruption and gross mismangement by both political parties of tax payer money, I get concerned. Especially, when there are as many tax takers as there are tax payers, a situation created by our government. The only way to reform government is to cut off their drug of choice, tax money! Well, I want some deep cuts in present and future spending. Not these pie in the sky cuts in future spending that both parties offer. I also don't want the Government getting into areas inwhich they shouldn't, like Healthcare. Government may attempt to project themselves as problem solvers with very good intentions but the reality that there is a long history of the Feds actually making the situation worse! LBJ's social programs are still costing us billions annually and all that it has done is grow poverty, which is at an all time high thanks to our government.

    In regards to quoting Luke; all I can say is, " thank you Tom Jefferson for clarifying the seperation of Church from State"!
    Luke is free to give all of his earnings to the Government but, I would like to keep as much of my earnings as I can and not give it to a bumbling, fumbling Federal Government.
    Last edited by Franco; 07-24-2012 at 09:17 PM.
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  9. #119
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Buzz, I believe that you misunderstood what Gerry was saying here:

    3) His statement carries the implication that ANYone (just as smart, just as hard-working) could do this. But only some do. The ones who do ARE different than those who DO NOT. They should be role models, not pillaged.

    So, you don't believe that in America anyone can make it? I'm sorry... So, in your opinion, if they are "just as smart, just as hard working" then what is it that they lack? Yes, they should be role models, but the example they are setting is, country be damned, it's all about me me me.

    Gerry was not himself saying that all are as smart and hardworking, he was paraphrasing part of Obama's statement. This perhaps explains to some extent why you also appear to be unable to correctly interpret what Obama said.


    As to the Luke quote: I have always liked liked that verse, but had never really noticed that it uses the word "GIVEN" rather than the word "EARNED". In that quote Luke also seems to be downplaying the importance of individual initiative. There are those who believe that any accomplishment is a "Gift" from God, but even then, it's not a gift from the Government.

    Last edited by HPL; 07-24-2012 at 10:29 PM.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
    (John Dewey)

    Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
    (George Washington)

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  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    I'm curious as to which administration first granted the research money, Bush41 or Clinton? Because if it was Clinton, then Al Gore is a big fat liar!

    Buzz, you bring up taxes. When I see, hear and read of the Government's corruption and gross mismangement by both political parties of tax payer money, I get concerned. Especially, when there are as many tax takers as there are tax payers, a situation created by our government. The only way to reform government is to cut off their drug of choice, tax money! Well, I want some deep cuts in present and future spending. Not these pie in the sky cuts in future spending that both parties offer. I also don't want the Government getting into areas inwhich they shouldn't, like Healthcare. Government may attempt to project themselves as problem solvers with very good intentions but the reality that there is a long history of the Feds actually making the situation worse! LBJ's social programs are still costing us billions annually and all that it has done is grow poverty, which is at an all time high thanks to our government.

    In regards to quoting Luke; all I can say is, " thank you Tom Jefferson for clarifying the seperation of Church from State"!
    Luke is free to give all of his earnings to the Government but, I would like to keep as much of my earnings as I can and not give it to a bumbling, fumbling Federal Government.
    Touche!!

    If there is one thing the govt has proven it is that they aren't the solution; they are the problem!!

    The problem we have is that both parties in our 2 party system give lip service to the fact that spending needs to be cut and the size of govt reduced.
    They both promise balanced budgets and state that if we will vote for them they will deliver. However with the exception for the last 2 yrs of Clintons time in office they have all failed to balance budgets & universally have failed to reduce the size of govt. Hell recently they have even failed to come up with a budget!!

    The solution I see is that we the people are going to have to kick these two self serving lying parties to the curb and pass a balanced budget amendment to the constitution. These imbeciles routinely raise the "DEBT CEILING" on their supposed attempt at fiscal responsibility on an annual or semi-annual basis. Yet we voters remain complicit in allowing these imbeciles to remain in office.
    Congress has an approval rating in the single digits; however the percentage of incumbents who run for reelection remain high. Everybody wants to kick the bastards out, but in practice they want every other congressman thrown out. However they like the Congresscritter they have the ability to vote out, and return them to office where they are free to screw us for another term. Undoubtedly they like their Congresscritter based on the fact that he gets money spent on their district, which he no doubt uses his franking priviledge to keep him well aware of.
    This results in a system where spending is the lifeblood of the Congresscritters exixstence. That is why we have to have a balanced budget amendment in order to force Congress to live within their (OUR) means and get rid of the deficit spending Santa Claus mentality which gets them reelected

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