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Thread: Dog takes off before I finish cast...or perhaps barely start cast

  1. #21
    Senior Member T-Pines's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    I'm having trouble seeing this as a violation of the sit command. I think the dog thinks that I have given her a command to move by starting the cast, and that she does not know (my bad) that she is supposed to wait till I finish the cast.

    As I outlined above, she does not move until I have my hands up and start to raise one. I walked around her, jumping around making silly noises, moving my hands in various ways and she did not move a toenail, only her head. She only started to go once I had my hands in position and started to raise one.

    But T-Pines you have given me an idea: I will stop her on her way to pile, and I will tell her sit-sit-sit as I do the cast, she will stay sitting since I am telling her sit, but then I hope know to go when I finish the cast. Hmmmm.
    You have an anticipation issue. Traffic Cop is an ideal format for working on anticipation problems.

    I'm a little concerned about your idea to work on the sit standard during a casting exercise. I think there is the potential to confuse rather than to clarify. I think this approach requires more skill and finesse.

    My suggestion is to clarify and teach your casting command (the timing of the relaese from the sit) during a SIT STANDARD exercise. From the standpoint of potential unintended consequences, the difference is significant.

    Jim

  2. #22
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    I think the dog thinks that I have given her a command to move by starting the cast, and that she does not know (my bad) that she is supposed to wait till I finish the cast.
    You and your dog are having a communications failure. You have been given lots of good advice on how to fix it.
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    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  3. #23
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    I don't understand, then:

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Pines View Post
    snip...

    Traffic Cop is fundamentally about a MOTIONLESS standard of SIT ... no matter what else is happening. This sit standard should include the requirement that the dog's attention remain fixated on you. In Traffic Cop, you walk around at various distances from the dog. You are teaching the dog to sit motionless and focused on you from remote postions. You reinforce the SIT while moving and while standing still. You can assume various arm positions and various hand positions, just about any movements or gestures other than movements that are specifically taught to as commands (such as casts). All the while you can hold the dog responsible for the highest level of the sit standard.

    When this is going perfectly, add a bumper or bird to the routine, sometimes releasing the dog to pick it up, other times picking it up yourself, and sometimes leaving it on the ground as you heel away to work on some obedience. (I think Blimp's advice was very Hillmann-like).

    In the instances where you release the dog to retrieve, mix these up between remote releases and releases from your side. Also mix up the remote releases between verbal (eg., "Fetch") and a cast (both silent and verbal). The benefit of this is that you are able to reinforce your sit standard (the primary purpose of this exercise) while teaching the dog exactly what is expected when he is released for a retrieve -- any type of release that is in your repertoire. You can address anticipation issues, bugging, etc. It is only limited by your creativity in connection with the problem you are trying to solve.

    ...snip
    She does all this. It is when I add the cast that things are going downhill.


    Quote Originally Posted by T-Pines View Post
    ...snip

    I'm a little concerned about your idea to work on the sit standard during a casting exercise. I think there is the potential to confuse rather than to clarify. I think this approach requires more skill and finesse.
    Thanks, I agree, I'm trying to figure out a plan. I am going to read/reread the RO article Dennis mention.
    Renee P

  4. #24
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    I should add, T-Pines, that I don't have the Traffic Cop DVD, I have the puppy and fetch ones, so I'm going by what you wrote in your posts. I believe my dog stays "sitted" to a high standard.

    I have battled slow/loopy sits and crooked sits. But how much is on me because I did not understand the standard and how much is the dog, who knows.

    Dennis, I just reread "Dealing with mistakes and problems."

    Thanks everyone for advice. I am taking it all in.
    Last edited by mitty; 09-09-2012 at 06:10 PM.
    Renee P

  5. #25
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    Make a video and post it up so we can see what is going on with you and the pup.

  6. #26
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Kendrick View Post
    Make a video and post it up so we can see what is going on with you and the pup.
    Good idea. It could be, as Breck alluded, that you are giving the dog a cast before you stick your arm up with other movement that you do not realize. I have the tendency to fall into this myself and it is very hard to know whether you are doing it or not. It could be very subtle, such as cocking your elbow out before giving the back or something that the dog takes as the cast before you get your arm out. A video would help a lot.

  7. #27
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Here is a short demo of her sitting. I took it myself on my iPhone so the quality is not great, and I sound like I am yelling at her but I am not.

    This is at the U of Utah campus this morning, she is a little distracted by the students walking around:



    I tried to film the problem I am concerned about, but it was too awful so I will try later with some help.
    Renee P

  8. #28
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    In that clip there is absolutely no problem what so ever. Good dog.
    Have your friend shoot video from 10 or 20 yards behind you and slightly to one side so we can see you and dog.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Thanks, Breck.

    This afternoon I did a little 8-handed casting with her in my tiny yard and we did pretty good...I wasn't able to do much else today.

    I need casting lessons. Someone could make a whole training DVD on how to move arms, hold hands together, set the pace, etc.

    Thanks all, I will try for a video, but if that doesn't pan out I have more clues about what I need to pay attention to, and some drills to learn.
    Renee P

  10. #30
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Slow down is great advice. Also how much movement you do is another thing to look at. Many new people shift their body in casting. That is telling the dog which way to go. Focus on no movement till u cast


    /pPaul
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