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Thread: Dog takes off before I finish cast...or perhaps barely start cast

  1. #31
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    OK it was hard to find a video of a handler casting on a blind but here is one that shows you a clean and crisp cast and square body.
    Due to this particular situation the handler is moving a lot to get into position but....
    When he blows the whistle he is still and casts quickly and sharply. No need to wait to cast in this case but you would.
    Handler is Alan Pleasant with the great FC-AFC Hawkeyes Candlewood Shadow.

    http://classic.akc.org/videos/events...6/eighth_1.swf
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  2. #32
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    Handler is Alan Pleasant with the great FC-AFC Hawkeyes Candlewood Shadow.
    Alan is great to watch run a blind. Obviously he is very good but I like how when he starts thinking he might need a cast he does that clench the hands thing. Because of that you can follow a little bit what he is thinking. For example, dog is getting close to a point, fingers start clenching; dog does the right thing, they stop for a while.

  3. #33
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    OK it was hard to find a video of a handler casting on a blind but here is one that shows you a clean and crisp cast and square body.
    Due to this particular situation the handler is moving a lot to get into position but....
    When he blows the whistle he is still and casts quickly and sharply. No need to wait to cast in this case but you would.
    Handler is Alan Pleasant with the great FC-AFC Hawkeyes Candlewood Shadow.

    http://classic.akc.org/videos/events...6/eighth_1.swf
    I have that jacket, will that help?

    When people tell me to slow down, I take that to mean two things:

    1. Let my dog get set before I start my arm motion.
    2. Don't move my arm so fast once I start the casting motion with my arm.

    In the video, I think Mr. Pleasant is raising his arm very quickly which Breck describes as "crisp," so I'm wondering if "slow down" does not include #2?

    This may be an area where I am confusing my dog (and you all trying to help me), as I am trying to be very slow and deliberate in raising my arm and she is starting to go before I have raised it more than a couple of inches.
    Renee P

  4. #34
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Mitti

    I asked quite awhile ago in the thread, How long has the dog been running cold blinds?

    You didnt answer!
    I totally understand you ignoring Gooser. I ingnor my ownself much of the time..

    But I is really curious.

    Just so you know. I get beat up all the time about the soeed at wich I cast. I dont let the dog settle.. I sling my arm up way to fast,and it goes up in a miriade of directions. Practice your casting in front of a mirror. Be honest. Do it exactly as you would with the dog. Is the cast perfectly clear??

    Also I think if the dog is just starting running cold blinds,, and he hasnt had many in different situations, I think what you describe is common.
    In early blinds you are looking for GO,,, STOP,,, Come. You are also teaching them to handel and take casts. It takes some time for all the pieces to come together.

    I follow the dog out in early blinds. I get a good sit, and stay relativly close to the dog. I use mostly attrition if the dog auto casts, breakes sit, doesnt look at me.
    Many times if the dog looks off, I sent right away with a verbal back. He has to move but didnt see a cast. He gets an Immediate sit whistle cause I make him think he went the wrong way. A dose of this usually makes the dog focus on you.

    If he auto casts,, make him sit again.. With attririon at first. If he then wont go,, you have the tool of force on back.
    He has to move off that spot. At first,, dont worry which way he goes after he has froze.. He just has to go.

    If he truly is auto casting... Practice lifting your arm slowly, and enforcing that great sit you have,, Maybe giving a reminder second sit whistle as Lainee said earlier. but only let him move or go, on your VERBAL back. You teach him to sit through the motion,, but GO on the verbal. This will slow you BOTH down.
    All this,, I BELIEVE ,,,is part of the dance lessons I talked about earlier. We are learning to become a team.. Partners.
    More Blinds,,,, More Blinds...
    Long blinds,,, and follow the dog.
    JUST GOOSERS OPINION...
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 09-11-2012 at 08:34 AM.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    One more question.

    Are you SURE your Pile work was complete? Did She do well on the T?

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  6. #36
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Mitti

    I asked quite awhile ago in the thread, How long has the dog been running cold blinds?

    You didnt answer!
    I totally understand you ignoring Gooser. I ingnor my ownself much of the time..

    But I is really curious.

    Just so you know. I get beat up all the time about the soeed at wich I cast. I dont let the dog settle.. I sling my arm up way to fast,and it goes up in a miriade of directions. Practice your casting in front of a mirror. Be honest. Do it exactly as you would with the dog. Is the cast perfectly clear??

    Also I think if the dog is just starting running cold blinds,, and he hasnt had many in different situations, I think what you describe is common.
    In early blinds you are looking for GO,,, STOP,,, Come. You are also teaching them to handel and take casts. It takes some time for all the pieces to come together.

    I follow the dog out in early blinds. I get a good sit, and stay relativly close to the dog. I use mostly attrition if the dog auto casts, breakes sit, doesnt look at me.
    Many times if the dog looks off, I sent right away with a verbal back. He has to move but didnt see a cast. He gets an Immediate sit whistle cause I make him think he went the wrong way. A dose of this usually makes the dog focus on you.

    If he auto casts,, make him sit again.. With attririon at first. If he then wont go,, you have the tool of force on back.
    He has to move off that spot. At first,, dont worry which way he goes after he has froze.. He just has to go.

    If he truly is auto casting... Practice lifting your arm slowly, and enforcing that great sit you have,, Maybe giving a reminder second sit whistle as Lainee said earlier. but only let him move or go, on your VERBAL back. You teach him to sit through the motion,, but GO on the verbal. This will slow you BOTH down.
    All this,, I BELIEVE ,,,is part of the dance lessons I talked about earlier. We are learning to become a team.. Partners.
    More Blinds,,,, More Blinds...
    Long blinds,,, and follow the dog.
    JUST GOOSERS OPINION...
    I didn't mean to ignore you! I don't have a clear answer. Do you mean when did she start running them the first time? Or after I went and did the patch job on my basics training? I guess we started again in May, and mostly on water on account of water being a rare commodity and it being very very hot.

    Ooops I gotta go now and take the kid to school.
    Renee P

  7. #37
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    When people tell me to slow down, I take that to mean two things:

    1. Let my dog get set before I start my arm motion.
    2. Don't move my arm so fast once I start the casting motion with my arm
    It means both.

    When you stop a dog you almost always want a change in direction (why stop him if he's going right? Although, there are times). So you let the dog stop, give him a few seconds for his brain to change from go, go, go, to come to neutral. Watch him, they'll usually let you know when they've gone from the go state to the mental state that they'll take a decent cast. Then give your cast. Its usually about 2-3 seconds but watch your dog. You want them to shift gears into neutral. If they don't shift mental gears, give him another whistle. It's not a race.

    I don't know if I've ever heard this from one of the guru trainers or not, but I use a fast snappy cast to drive the dog back in other words to get less of an angle change to my cast, often accompanied with voice. I use a slower more deliberate cadence to my casts when I want a bigger angle change, most often silent.

    A lot of this will depend on your casting style and how you want to communicate with your dog. Don't get stuck on something that you think should work, watch what actually works with your dog.
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  8. #38
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    I got a dog who loved to auto-cast, any movement by me in any direction and she was off, nice when we are teaching pups cast initially and teaching them drills. However when you get to where you have 6 different particular casts of 20 degrees on different hands, a dog never seeing the actual cast becomes annoying. Solution was to wait the dog out, and for me to learn how to set her up to correct the auto-casting. Basically train the dog to whistle sit both hands in a praying neutral position as the dog looks at you, move a hand out to prime the dog the direction it will be going, dog sits there through that hand, as long as that hand doesn't move into a actual cast the dog sits there. If the dog auto-casts, whistle No, sit. wait. Might even use the time to change your mind on the direction you prime and where your casting to. Let the dog sit there, you got all the time in the world. Then when you cast, commit to it, allow the dog to cast, if dog takes the wrong cast, No, sit, wait and hands neutral repeat. If the dog gets to close to the bumper or too far of line, bring the dog back no, sit, wait cast. You might be very surprised how much making a dog wait, improves their control and handling, they also do much better when they actually see the cast
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  9. #39
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    I need to work on a notecard to remind myself what to work on. Here's what I got:

    1. Slow down, and after I've slowed down...slow down some more.
    Wait for dog to get set before I give another command.
    Dog may take awhile to get set if she is wound up.
    After dog is set, count to five before casting.
    2. Do not run dogs on blinds with factors she has not been trained on.

    (I need to learn more about factors that affect the line the dog will take and knows how to handle.)

    I can't concentrate on these all at once, I need to prioritize.

    Gooser, I have tried the mirror but I don't have a big one. I thought about buying one but I got no where to put it. So sometimes I practice in the ladies' room at work, but then someone comes in and it is really embarrassing.

    When I study others, I am usually looking at their back...what are they doing with their hands before they are visible???
    Renee P

  10. #40
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    What I figured out awhile ago, but still forget, is that my dog may deal well with factors when I send her on a blind from my side, but may not know what to do when faced with the factor if handled from a front-sit position out in the field. For example, if I need to correct her line just as she is to cross a road, she wants to run down the road instead of across it and cannot figure out what I want.

    So lately I've been working on teaching my dog to run through rather than around cover, and then to cast correctly through cover when handled from the front-sit position. Today I did a few short video clips of some of the steps I took. I'm using my iPhone again, so the quality isn't great, and while you can't see me you can still see plenty of my mistakes in the third/final clip.

    This first clip is establishing the line to the pile. I am standing in front of a "shrub island" about 80 yards from the pile. There are no factors and the dog knows where the pile is. All is well I think.

    Last edited by mitty; 09-11-2012 at 03:21 PM.
    Renee P

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