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Thread: Dog takes off before I finish cast...or perhaps barely start cast

  1. #51
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    I have a group that I have been training with, but it is sort of scattered at the moment. They have advanced dogs so I have been doing most of the baby dog stuff on my own.

    And the mirror thing. More than likely my casting is inconsistent...maybe this is a good thing as a wrong habit hasn't been totally ingrained...I need to learn what I should look like, and then work on making those motions a habit.
    Renee P

  2. #52
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    I don't get the whistle vs voice thing. In the house, at work or on walks through the neighborhood I do not whip out my whistle to give commands to the dog. Sometimes I train places where the whistle is inappropriate, like at 6 am in a small park surrounded by homes, so I use voice.

    In a recent thread someone said something about it being bad to use voice in an event, I think a HT, to handle dog. That puzzled me.

    Anyhoo, and Gooser I think can relate to this, a few months ago I was reprimanded for blowing the bejesus out of the whistle every time I used it...I didn't realize I did this, I suspect it goes with the doing-everything-too-fast dog handler persona. So that is also on my list of things to concentrate on during blind work.
    Dogs are "situational". They know the difference between a walk in the neighborhood and training and tests. Treat your dog accordingly.
    At events once you send your dog, unless you're handling and need to say back, over or no here say absolutely nothing. If for example you blow a sit whistle running a blind and blurt out good Good you will probably be eliminated for training.
    By the way if you take your dog to public places off lead it is a good idea to have your whistle around your neck. Actually, if you have that kind of time you may want to go train rather than take the dog for a walk.

    As far as blowing the whistle when you stop your dog 50 yards away there is no need to blow your lungs out they can hear a softer tweet. Save that for when they are 300 yards out in a cross wind.
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  3. #53
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Ok...my current plan is to focus on slowing down and trying not to blow the bejesus out of the whistle every time, and then see where I am with this issue in a couple weeks. I may do some of the drills y'all have suggested, but my bird boy is back in school.

    Much thanks for help and advice.
    Renee P

  4. #54
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    Not too much to a correct casting position. Again before you blow, be in the spot you need to be already where dog will see you, whistle in mouth, stand still, hands together in front of you chest.
    Then blow, wait, cast. Side steps or running sideways with your hand up are not normally necessary so most of the time stand still and cast. For arm/hand position imagine standing within a plane (geometry) or vertical sheet of paper like the famous Leonardo Vitruvian man drawing. When you cast, you arm stays within that plane. Not pointing forward or backwards. OK? That's your normal cast.
    As you get better you will tweak this sometimes. For example, with sun high in sky and arm held straight out the sleeve may be in shadow and hard for dog to see. Moving you outstretched arm forward or backward a bit so light shines on the sleeve could work at times.
    Last edited by Breck; 09-12-2012 at 07:33 AM.
    "Darla" AFC Candlewoods Lil Smokin Tequila (2002-2013)(fondly remembered)
    "Smoke" Smokin Auggies Menace, QAA (2003- )(retired nut case, ask Rando)
    "Simba" Humewood Simba (1999-2014)(my 1st dog)

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  5. #55
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    Not to much to a correct casting position. Again before you blow, be in the spot you need to be already where dog will see you, whistle in mouth, stand still, hands together in front of you chest.
    Then blow, wait, cast. Side steps or running sideways with your hand up are not normally necessary so most of the time stand still and cast. For arm/hand position imagine standing within a plane (geometry) or vertical sheet of paper like the famous Leonardo drawing. When you cast, you arm stays within that plane. Not pointing forward or backwards. OK? That's your normal cast.
    As you get better you will tweak this sometimes. For example, with sun high in sky and arm held straight out the sleeve may be in shadow and hard for dog to see. Moving you outstretched arm forward or backward a bit so light shines on the sleeve could work at times.
    LOL another thing to add to the list. If I do the micro step thing on a cast, I usually forget to return to my original position before it is time to make the next cast.

    Steve, this is where you may use the heeling stick.
    Renee P

  6. #56
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    I don't get the whistle vs voice thing. In the house, at work or on walks through the neighborhood I do not whip out my whistle to give commands to the dog. Sometimes I train places where the whistle is inappropriate, like at 6 am in a small park surrounded by homes, so I use voice.

    In a recent thread someone said something about it being bad to use voice in an event, I think a HT, to handle dog. That puzzled me.

    Anyhoo, and Gooser I think can relate to this, a few months ago I was reprimanded for blowing the bejesus out of the whistle every time I used it...I didn't realize I did this, I suspect it goes with the doing-everything-too-fast dog handler persona. So that is also on my list of things to concentrate on during blind work.

    I think your video teaches us all about the internet and discussions of problems.

    I think your young dog looks great. He works with you very well.

    I agree ,, you do need to ditch the voice.

    We didnt get a chance to see you, but I just bet, the auto cast is becuse of some motion you are relaying to the dog.

    As to the comment of the blowing the whistle to lowd, and not aware that you do it. I CAN relate. I have a front tooth that has decided to go rouge "Pumpkin" on me. Outa the blue ithas decided to grow longer than the one next to it,, and it has a funny notch shape in it also.

    One day I was havin a" discussion " with Mrs Gooser with my whistle in my mouth. She stopped me and said let me look at the way you hold that silly whistle a yers.. Sure enough,, the Pumkin tooth aint growin. The tooth next to it has been ground down,, and the notch in the longer one fits my whistle shape perfectly!

    I Now have to go get this comospolently fixed so as I dont ruin my ravishing good looks. I do have a reputation to hold..

    I have bit through plastic whistles at HT's. I have blown so hard I have Farted at the same time!!

    I am beggining to learn why folks think I is a circus act to watch run dogs, but it is SLOWLY starting to change..

    Gooser
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 09-12-2012 at 08:36 AM.
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  7. #57
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    I don't get the whistle vs voice thing.
    When you are working the dog beyond ~30 yards you'll find your voice not loud enough. Especially if the dog is running through highish grass, brush or running water. Also, when running multiple blinds your voice will wear out. After awhile you will be using your whistle just like your voice, soft close, matter of fact to stop and give a normal cast, quick and stern when they don't take a cast, angry when they give you the 2nd cast refusal, madder than hell when they go totally self employed etc.
    Howard Niemi

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  8. #58
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    I think your video teaches us all about the internet and discussions of problems.
    And I ditch the whistle so I can record my dog and now everyone thinks I have trained my dog without a whistle. This is like that kids game "Telephone."

    I've followed the Lardy program as best I could, I use the whistle cuz he says too. I figure I will figure out some of the "why" of dog training by trying to do it. Meanwhile we are making some progress continuing to continue, sometimes 1 step forwards, 3 steps backwards.

    I'm just wondering why everyone thinks telling a dog to sit rather than tooting the whistle, is such a grave sin! I thought the purpose of the whistle was so dog could hear from a distance, so I was just wondering why, if dog is nearby, it is a grave sin to give dog a verbal rather than whistle command.

    I'm gathering that the use of voice in the field is supposed to be a cue to the dog that it is in trouble, but this does not seem in the spirit of why one should use a whistle in the first place. Just wondering.

    Whew. It is true that I rarely use the whistle when I do little drills in my tiny 1/6 acre yard out of respect for my neighbors. Or in the lawn at the University. But it is either that or nothing some days. It is a 60 minute round trip to open space larger than a football field. And right now kids are playing football on the football fields, so even those aren't available.

    I've only been at this for about 1.5 years and already I have a gazillion whistles.
    Renee P

  9. #59
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    I CAN relate. I have a front tooth that has decided to go rouge "Pumpkin" on me. Outa the blue ithas decided to grow longer than the one next to it,, and it has a funny notch shape in it also.

    One day I was havin a" discussion " with Mrs Gooser with my whistle in my mouth. She stopped me and said let me look at the way you hold that silly whistle a yers.. Sure enough,, the Pumkin tooth aint growin. The tooth next to it has been ground down,, and the notch in the longer one fits my whistle shape perfectly!
    You made me check my own teeth in the mirror!

    When I read about some of your trials and tribulations of dog training, I often think: that's me!

    I wondering if it is the perfectionist in you, which I infer from your beautiful woodworking.

    Something doesn't go according to plan with dog, adrendaline rush! Blasting whistle! Arms flailing!

    That's me anyhow. I don't do woodworking but the walls have to be totally smooth before I can paint them...drives my husband nuts.
    Renee P

  10. #60
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    And I ditch the whistle so I can record my dog and now everyone thinks I have trained my dog without a whistle. This is like that kids game "Telephone."

    I've followed the Lardy program as best I could, I use the whistle cuz he says too. I figure I will figure out some of the "why" of dog training by trying to do it. Meanwhile we are making some progress continuing to continue, sometimes 1 step forwards, 3 steps backwards.

    I'm just wondering why everyone thinks telling a dog to sit rather than tooting the whistle, is such a grave sin! I thought the purpose of the whistle was so dog could hear from a distance, so I was just wondering why, if dog is nearby, it is a grave sin to give dog a verbal rather than whistle command.

    I'm gathering that the use of voice in the field is supposed to be a cue to the dog that it is in trouble, but this does not seem in the spirit of why one should use a whistle in the first place. Just wondering.

    Whew. It is true that I rarely use the whistle when I do little drills in my tiny 1/6 acre yard out of respect for my neighbors. Or in the lawn at the University. But it is either that or nothing some days. It is a 60 minute round trip to open space larger than a football field. And right now kids are playing football on the football fields, so even those aren't available.

    I've only been at this for about 1.5 years and already I have a gazillion whistles.





    For one thing the whistle is soooo much easier to use than the voice and the dog responds to it much better too.
    Have you noticed how many people have complimented Anna? Although Gooser keeps callin her a him. I have told you that since she was a little one. She has taught you a lot and will teach you a lot more. As you learn to understand her and why she is doing what she is doing she will teach more than all the goobers on this forum. I will look forward to more training days. I like helping you because you try really hard and are serious about learning just like a new puppy with lots of promise. You and Anna are a good fit.

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