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Carrying lines on blinds

20K views 53 replies 25 participants last post by  weathered 
#1 ·
I would like some suggestions on how to improve my dogs ability to carry lines on blinds at field trial distances. For example: I give a right angle back, the dog turns properly, moves in the right direction but does not dig in and carry that line, causing another whistle and a choppy looking blind.

Thanks
 
#2 ·
Um central IL? Best thing is to go train with Charlie Hines.
 
#3 ·
Charlie is close to chicago. Quite a ways from nancy. and Charlie likes to do his own thing.understandable considering he has quite a few nice dogs, and hires his own help. My guess Nancy is looking for suggestions she can do on her own.
 
#6 · (Edited)
This is a drill I do from the time the pup is in transition 'til I retire the dog. I'll do it 3-4 times a week with the transition dog until they are smooth on it at this first field. Then I'll take it to another field and do it again. It'll take ~2 weeks in the first field to become smooth. Then maybe a week in another field to become smooth. With my big dogs I might only do it once a week and miss a week now and then but I do do it all their competitive lives.

First I'll send to each pile from my side usually an over then the angle to the same side then the other over and then the angle to that side and finally the back pile. 5 total sends from my side. I'll then leave the dog on the line and walk ~ 10 yards away from them and cast to each pile. With youngsters I do it in order over, angle, then straight back all to either the left or the right. Then I'll do the same to the other side. Once they've been smooth on this drill for a few weeks at different fields I'll start mixing up the casts, that is left over followed by a right back etc. I don't burn, get mad, or show temper on this drill It's hard and all those piles and old blinds are distractions to the dog. I will not let them take a wrong cast but stop them as soon as I see them taking the wrong cast. I then repeat the cast. If I get a 2nd missed cast I'll move the dog up towards the pile simplifying it. I do not pound and pound on this drill in one day expecting them to get it right the first day. I only line each pile once and cast to each pile once except the back pile which gets a right and a left straight back. Altogether I only put out 11 bumpers per each time I do it. I figure I do it enough the casts will come in time and they always have.

I learned this drill at Jim Gonia's McKenna kennel when I had a youngster there. I brought her home for the summer and Jim or his assistant told me to keep this drill going during the summer. I set it up twice a week for the pup and since I was setting it up anyway also did my older dog, my first retriever, too. My first dog wouldn't hold a cast worth a darn. After a couple of weeks of doing this drill I realized that what used to be 7 or 8 whistle blinds with him were now becoming 3 and 4 whistle blinds. He was taking better casts and holding them longer.

You have to keep a high standard of casting in the field. You give an angle insist on it. You give an over do not accept an angle or an over and then a scallop. I do literal casting and insist the dog take the literal cast in training.


 
#8 ·
You have to keep a high standard of casting in the field. You give an angle insist on it. You give an over do not accept an angle or an over and then a scallop.
I find this is key in most all casting drill and very important.

I too do a drill very similar to Howards once a week with good results. I also use a ladder type drill on angles to get them really stretched out.
 
#9 ·
Howard as a follow up to your drill.
Once your dog is more advance you can reuse this same drill but instead of intersection 10 yards out make it 200 yards. Only difference is you have a helper sitting near intersection to receive dog and sit him back on the spot. Gives you a lot of long distance casting work without dog coming in.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Funny Howard, I was just doing that drill last night with Mick, just starting on it with him. I learned it from Ed Krueger. We used to go do it out on frozen snow covered ponds in the winter. I started thinking about this drill again last week when I didn't get an over off of a dirt mound that I needed in the Amateur water blind the weekend before last. I was in good company I guess...
 
#11 ·
I am trying to understand the start of this drill. I see 5 piles. 2 bumbers per pile except the back pile making it 11 total bumpers like you said. Then you send from your side the first five. When you send the dog to each pile, you line line and give the back command to each pile correct? You said over , but should I assume you are just calling the piles a the 90 the "over piles". Then step back 10 yards and cast, over, and angle back, left back, right back, angle back and over.
Thank you,
Ernie
 
#12 ·
I don't necessarily believe that the line is the problem. I would tend to think that it is a factor that the dog is not fighting, i.e. wind, side hill, water, etc or suction that he is giving into, that is more of a problem. Teaching dogs to over come factors will teach them to carry better lines.
 
#14 ·
For this dog the problem begins with not carrying the cast/line. I see it on flat featureless fields, short stuff he is fine on, when he gets out there it becomes very obvious. I own this problem, I have never done long casting drills.
 
#18 ·
I'm with Dex and Angie. It doesn't do a damn bit of good to have the dog take a nice cast and then give in to cover, water, terrain or wind. I do that 5 legged lining and casting drill enough, in different places and different wind conditions, so I know my dog ablolutely knows what the cast means. If they don't carry it in spite of factors they get another whistle and another cast. Corrections depend on the dog and her experience level.

PS. I've never been a fan of walking baseball. I've done it some but prefer the above drill.
 
#28 ·
These have been great answers. As I see it, the original drill with 5 casts posted is extremely helpful in getting the casts straightened out. I run a similar drill, but I am going to adjust mine to be more like the one posted. Once you nail down this drill in a few flat fields, you could move it to where some of the casts deal with more factors, even water.

This is the advantage of walking baseball, though. You can run any cast through any factor. When we run walking baseball, we do 8 casts (left back, right back. left angle back, right angle back, left over, right over, left hunt in, right hunt in) every time. If a dog shows me an issue with one of the casts, I will re-run that cast before moving on to the next.

I'm hoping we get some more great advice on this thread! A lot of folks have yet to weigh in.
 
#30 ·
I'm not looking for any more validation. Anything added would not be a validation, just further ideas. Maybe someone has another drill or something that has worked for them. Several of these "training help" threads go on for 6-7 pages. I'm sorry, but I'd rather people keep adding ideas to a thread like this than read 10 pages of arguing over whether a British Hunt Test Amateur Dog is better than a FC American Pro Dog who only eats such and such... you get the idea.

Just wanted folks to keep weighing in with training ideas on a training thread... Sorry!
 
#34 ·
WHEW.. I already feed Euk 30/20! I knew it couldn't be the training that was straightening all these casts out... glad to finally know what it was.

I get what you're saying, Angie. I had just never run the drill exactly like the picture was posted. I'm always hoping for new pictures or videos (Wayne) that show something I don't know or something better than what I do. I'm still new at this (training 3 years now).

Speaking of derailing the convo, you live in Aubrey? I used to live in Dallas, but I wasn't in to training dogs back them. I wish I had been, seems there are a ton of great trainers in the area.
 
#35 ·
I figured you were new to all this retriever training stuff.

I personally don't use a drill to work on casting. I just practice A Lot!!!! I don't have the time flexibility an amateur has. Though poor Howard has to deal with the weather...:razz:

Sorry you had to leave Dallas for Mississippi?? Bloom where you're planted.

Angie
 
#36 ·
Angie you missed a lot of fun and good food this past weekend at Lonesome Dove.
 
#41 ·
That is it!! Thank you so much. I could not remember the distances between the back piles and I couldn't find it in my notes. Thanks for taking the time to look it up.
Wow. This is the very drill that I called Howard to discuss within the last couple weeks. I am glad I got to talk live with him one last time. I did so because Bill was mentioning the drill and I wanted to talk through it live.

The timing is interesting. I was talking with a Field Trialer the other day who was just telling me how his/her household tries to always say "goodbye" with a smile, a hug, etc., parting ways on a happy note. The reason was that you never know what will happen after you say "goodbye".

I'm on day two of trying to wrap my mind around Howard being gone. Life is precious. Life is brief. Howard, I hope to see you in Heaven one day.

Chris
 
#43 ·
It sounds to me like your dog is not holding lines against factors. I personally don't think that casting drills alone are going to fix that. I would spend time running lining drills similar to what Lardy calls tune up drills. There are ways to simplify these drills to improve a dogs ability to handle running against factors.
 
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