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Thread: Limiting the number of entries at an AKC hunt test?

  1. #11
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    I can't help wondering if that sets a precedent, though.
    With the severe drought in the midwest this year, some areas had no water (Bong Recreation Area comes to mind) over 3 inches deep. So those clubs should have been able to limit entries, too?

    Barb Gibson
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    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Pam Spears's Avatar
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    I can see how the mechanics of a limited entry would have to be worked out, such as having the software at EE cut off entries at the designated number. However, I don't see what the problem is with limited entries, other than it's not the way it's been done in the past. Dog shows, horse races... lots of events have limited entries. I'd rather see a club put on a first rate well run test with limited entries than having to scramble to find a full slate of judges and volunteers to run multiple flights, compromising the quality of the event in order to accommodate quality. Maybe people would start entering sooner than the day of closing, LOL. So I'm curious, what's the downside?
    Pam
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  3. #13
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Spears View Post
    So I'm curious, what's the downside?
    AKC does not allow it. If they did, I am certain that most if not all FTs and HTs would have a limit to entries.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    The grounds and lack of water cannot support a triple Master split, They can support a single master split. I ran last year ran with a single master split on 2 days, if memory serves, everyone signup the last day put them over, they skid by with 57 dogs the year before. They had 45-50 dogs 2 days before signup closed. 60 dogs in a MH series in AZ in Feb. is not doable, days are short in Feb, but Feb is also the coolest your going to get in AZ. The Thurs-Fri test had to run well into Sat, with about 10-15 dogs still needing to run. Had to run one dog on the last series of one test then turn around and run the same dog on the first series of another, both long series in temps of 90-95 degrees. The last series was not completed until well after dark on Sun, running in head-lights stinks. So yes I'm all for cutting down the entries, per stake. I'm curious why they choose an odd number like 89 and not 90, with 45 in each flight. I can't see how a single master would solve this problem, AZ probably has the number of MH dogs, themselves to require a split, many club members goal is the Master National, there are very few tests in the area. The club members need the double MH test, to get their passes for MNH qualification, they sacrifice JH and SH only running one a day to support it. It's their club their decision, and knowing Copper-state they got all of this approved before the letters went out, I'd bet the letter is just to inform their members and other concerned to signup before hand and not count on day of close sign-ups.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 09-17-2012 at 03:23 PM.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Codatango's Avatar
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    I'd be up for limiting entries. This year, the day before closing, 2 pros entered with a total of 45 dogs, plus several others from out of state, all of whom had NEVER had come to our test before. California, 1000's of miles from this year's MN.
    OMG!!! We now need 200 more ducks form a bird supplier we have to pre-order from! Thank God he had the birds!

    Most clubs on the West coast need to hold a double J/S to not go in the red or make a few bucks. If they had to split Senior and/or add a 3rd Master stake, there often isn't the grounds for that.

    I've heard of one instance of a CA club petitioning AKC to go a few dogs over in Master so they wouldn't have to add a 3rd Master stake.

    Debbie

  6. #16
    Senior Member Kelly Greenwood's Avatar
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    Actually I am not sure why they limited the number to 89? For a 2 day test like copper state wouldn't you limit them to 60? If they are going for a 3 day test then 90 makes sense. Currently on EE they have one test starting Thursday and one starting Saturday.
    in 2010 they had 54 entries in Master and held a single flight
    in 2011 they had 57 entries in Master and held a single flight
    in 2012 they had 72 entries in Masters and split the stake and had 8-10 scratches so ran about 63 dogs or about 32 per flight.
    in 2013 they are planning 89 entries which would be 12 less per flight than they ran in a flight in 2011?
    If they are running 3 day tests then one runs thurs,fri,sat and the other runs sat,sun,mon.

    OK I Checked on AKC website and the first Master is a 3 day test Thursday, Friday, Saturday and the second Master is a 2 day test. So they could run 89 in the first test and not have to split then run the second Master on Sat, Sun and split it. Thus they only neeed one set of workers and judges for Thursday/Friday.
    Last edited by Kelly Greenwood; 09-17-2012 at 02:27 PM.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    I appreciate all the replies, but I'm still left with the question, is it or isn't it allowed to limit the number of entries? If it is, then is it allowed for all clubs? If it isn't, how did they get by with it? Or is it (like many rules) a rule that only applies to some people, and not to others?

    Barb Gibson
    with
    CH Rosewood Little Giant UDX VER RA MHU SH MXP MJP XFP T2BP DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG
    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"
    www.GoTeamTito.com

  8. #18
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
    I appreciate all the replies, but I'm still left with the question, is it or isn't it allowed to limit the number of entries? If it is, then is it allowed for all clubs? If it isn't, how did they get by with it? Or is it (like many rules) a rule that only applies to some people, and not to others?
    With AKC approval, which their premium states that they received, they can do what they want. AKC has approved in the past waivers not to split stakes if only one or two dogs over the minimum. It was not easy to get in the instances with which I am familiar. This goes a step beyond that, IMO. Interesting can of worms. You can bet others will look into how this was handled and try to get similar approval.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
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    The AKC rules used to allow clubs to limit entries. But due to "home cooking" where it seemed only club members got their dogs entered the rule was changed. IMO clubs should be allowed to limit entries due to extenuating circumstances such as inadequate grounds/water. However, there is no provision in the rules for that other than the rule allowing a club to deny entries "for good cause." That was meant to allow, for instance, denial of an entry with a habit of writing bad checks, not as a way of limiting entries.
    Don't get me wrong. If the club in question could not adequately handle the required additional flights I have no problem with them being allowed to either increase the number of dogs per flight or limit - fairly - the number of entries. But I would like to know how that was accomplished.

  10. #20
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    Here is the "official" reply when I contacted AKC about this. Seems like they can pick and choose. And because we could not, our club lost ~$2000 in our last hunt test because we had to split at 63 dogs. My question is how can they predict their conditions out to February of 2013 when we knew our situation withing a couple of weeks????

    Your e-mail has been forwarded to the office for a response as we indeed are the ones who have granted the exceptions. We look at each request individually, weighing the circumstances surrounding the request. In the case of Copper River HRC, they are facing a shortage of water making 3 flights of MH impossible.

    AKC maintains the right to grant these exceptions. Should your club run into particular circumstances that may warrant one feel free to contact me directly.

    Sincerely,

    Lisa Carroll
    Manager Performance Events
    Its a dog vs being an animal thing
    kbw

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