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Thread: how to lock on to a cold blind??

  1. #21
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RookieTrainer View Post
    Let's back up a step.

    I'm working pattern blinds with diversions (Lardy program). Once the bird is down I cannot keep him focused on the blind. I have been sending him and then handling him off, but it doesn't seem to be registering that he needs to go straight to the blind without the detour toward the bird. I understand that you initially don't need to fuss with the dog about the line, but when do you start insisting on a good initial line to the blind?

    Without the diversion marks he is fine, but then that's the purpose of the diversion birds, right?


    Yes! thats the point of the diversion.. to teach them to handel away from them..

    More reps.
    What surprised me. The Pro trainers dogs. They always seem to focus,, and run dead straight.
    You have to consider, how many blinds most of those dog run in a week compared to us mere mortals dogs.They run TONS of blinds comparativly. Its all about reps. They (dogs) just start to get better.
    Remember the point that many have helped me learn.. Your main focus right now is teaching the dog to handel. Its so important..


    Teach them to handel.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    I have been given a LOT of help.

    The help has been with many of the things and steps I THOUGHT I had a good handel on..
    FF was one.. I really havent had a clue in the past. It made me realise,, I have prolly never had a truley FF'd dog.

    Now Pile work.

    I thought I understood what this step encompassed. I didnt. many of the Video's, and Articles, dont explain some of the subtlties that needs to be addressed when teaching this step. Some of mine has been attitude, flaring both on the send ANND of the return. A square straight Front finish.
    Force at different points along the way. Praise at the correct point in time. running past the pile. Shopping the pile. But,,, the most important things the articles and DVD didnt show,, are the ways to correct some ofthese issues. They might show a generalised way with the star dog of the DVD,, but that may well be out the window with a different dog.

    Allthis should be fixed before a dog even starts to run blinds with pattern blinds, PB ithe diversion,, and cold blinds.

    I have made the mistake in the past to not be thourough with Yard work before moving on to other steps..

    One ofthe members ofthe training group reminded me.."Its not a sprint,,its a marathon" Be determined,, and finish.

    Gooser
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 10-02-2012 at 01:01 PM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Yes! thats the point of the diversion.. to teach them to handel away from them..

    More reps.
    What surprised me. The Pro trainers dogs. They always seem to focus,, and run dead straight.
    You have to consider, how many blinds most of those dog run in a week compared to us mere mortals dogs.They run TONS of blinds comparativly. Its all about reps. They (dogs) just start to get better.
    Remember the point that many have helped me learn.. Your main focus right now is teaching the dog to handel. Its so important..


    Teach them to handel.
    Gooser the pup I have now lined 150 yard blinds the 1st three times I ran blind drills with her. My sequence was...

    Sit the dog at the line and go out and drop the bumpers with her watching. Run the blind (she lined it).
    Put a stick man and winger in the field at about 50 - 60 yards, bring her back out and run the blind (she lined it).
    Throw the mark toward the line (10-12 yards off the line to blind) and pick it up.
    Reveive her facing the mark, heel her back, cue her on the blind and run the blind (she lined it).

    She did this three times in three different locations on different days.

    She just got it, right out of the box. It wasn't until I had a live body in the field that she started sucking into the diversion so that I could get a cast in. Sometimes I think it's just the dog.

  4. #24
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Jack

    So true.

    Some pros dont run PB with diversions just becaue of this experience. They run the blind with that REAL diversion in the field..,,, BUT,,, the step they try and drive home is,, with early blinds,, your main focus is teaching the dog to handel... Then when confronted with that diversion later,,, the handeling part is well engrained.

    Forget the hand and the fussing with the dog at the line right now.... Teach the dog to handel.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  5. #25
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    I have been sending him and then handling him off, but it doesn't seem to be registering that he needs to go straight to the blind without the detour toward the bird. I understand that you initially don't need to fuss with the dog about the line, but when do you start insisting on a good initial line to the blind?
    You are basically doing fine. After a lot of times handling if you can't get a good initial line try moving up some for the blind. He should have a good idea of where it's at so try a few steps in that direction see if he doesn't focus a little better. I've moved up all the way to even with the gun station to get them to look down at the pile. Next time you do one remember you had trouble with the last one so set the diversion further away from the line to the blind. You need to be able to handle off an old fall so you aren't going exactly going backwards if you need to handle off of it sometimes. But you also need the dog to understand that he is on a blind and not going back to an old fall.

    I teach poison birds at the same time. I'll run the pile, more than once if he is having trouble with it, shoot off a mark, pick up the mark, run the pile, shoot off the same mark, run the pile, pick up the mark. I do a dozen or so of these with the mark in various positions in relation to the pile. When the dog is smooth on these I'll start KRD's. I do KRD's the dog's whole competitive life.
    Last edited by Howard N; 10-02-2012 at 02:04 PM.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Yes! thats the point of the diversion.. to teach them to handel away from them..

    More reps.
    What surprised me. The Pro trainers dogs. They always seem to focus,, and run dead straight.
    You have to consider, how many blinds most of those dog run in a week compared to us mere mortals dogs.They run TONS of blinds comparativly. Its all about reps. They (dogs) just start to get better.
    Remember the point that many have helped me learn.. Your main focus right now is teaching the dog to handel. Its so important..


    Teach them to handel.
    I dont think they run more blinds ..BUT, they run more quality blinds with a better purpose...amateurs have a tendency to repeat familiar blinds and drill on the same blinds,makes the handler feel good and sometimes gives a false sense of security, but when taken to a different set of grounds,they cant always produce the desired results

    Something I learned from Hank Haney when I played golf was to start practicing the things I didnt do well (putting,mid irons) instead of the things I did well (driver, wedges)..I think dog trainers have a tendency to do the same thing, they repeat marks and blinds that their dogs can eat up, but due to the lack of access to different grounds and conditions they are unable to practice on terrain unfamiliar to both dog and handler
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  7. #27
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    I dont think they run more blinds ..BUT, they run more quality blinds with a better purpose...amateurs have a tendency to repeat familiar blinds and drill on the same blinds,makes the handler feel good and sometimes gives a false sense of security, but when taken to a different set of grounds,they cant always produce the desired results

    Something I learned from Hank Haney when I played golf was to start practicing the things I didnt do well (putting,mid irons) instead of the things I did well (driver, wedges)..I think dog trainers have a tendency to do the same thing, they repeat marks and blinds that their dogs can eat up, but due to the lack of access to different grounds and conditions they are unable to practice on terrain unfamiliar to both dog and handler
    I find this to be true more often then not with my training group. they are so concerned that someone well think badly of the holes that their dog have that they only do setup that they know that their dogs can do and not what their dog need. I try to tell them, training is for what the dogs need and not for show and I do not care if they make mistakes. After all thats why we train.

  8. #28
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Bon and truth seekers

    i agree ,,,EVENTUALLY ,
    but the OP was talking of a 10 month old puppy!
    Just get the dog going,, sitting,,and taking reasonable casts.

    challenge later

    jmhdao
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  9. #29
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    Sure thing, got off on a tangent. Get a good program and stick to it. the time you take in the beginning can save your a** at the end.

  10. #30
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
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    I keep coming back to this topic wondering when the issue will begin to deal with why a pup will not "lock". It always seems that the answers revolve around "you missed a step" and "this or drill that" will clear things up.

    It has been suggested (more than once) that those with experience seem to have fewer problems with the obvious reason being they know how to "get there".

    In general, if a dog/pup is not performing well, he is out of balance. Now it could be an age factor, but let's assume it isn't. In order to "lock" on a line the pup must be focused and intense with skills in place. When teaching anything new, levels of intensity and focus make a huge difference. Therefore, it isn't always just the wrong drill or sequence that is the real problem.

    There are many things that can be done in yardwork that will enhance focus. A more responsive pup will tend to pay more attention to what is going on. The intensity and focus will increase and impact the pup's ability to "lock".

    For example, by using exciting marks it would be to the trainer's advantage to let the pup "look at them longer" before releasing. The "hand cue" becomes an integral part of focusing.....it should be an excitement builder. The "line" is clear if the "reps" are similar.

    If the pup is given a chance to become more intense and focused when marking it will carryover to his demeanor when running blinds. Momentum is critical. Support for this approach is the fact that often suggestions are made to alternate running a mark and then a blind.

    It is not only about creating a "lock", it is more about changing attitudes and expectations. Increasing focus, anticipation and developing expectations do not come from just going through the motions of running a drill. Excellence is a fostered state of mind.....it happens when focus and intensity become significant factors in every training session.

    It is not always the program, but the manner in which the trainer goes about teaching. What can you change in your training sessions to positively impact the pup's focus?
    Last edited by KwickLabs; 10-03-2012 at 04:07 PM. Reason: spelling
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