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Thread: how to lock on to a cold blind??

  1. #31
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    This is a real question..

    Is it really a matter of locking onto "SOMTHING" on the horizon,,, or is it more a matter of agood handler setting his dog properly at the line, and training or conditioning the dog to go as sent?

    I will line the dog with good physical placement at the line (Dogs spine in line with bird) and send the dog.
    The dogs runs straight as sent due to many reps that have included handeling to keep him on line. He eventually runs dead straight, cause he doesnt really like to be handeled.

    Is it MORE a matter of conditioning and reps?


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  2. #32
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    Obviously too early for a dog just starting blinds but you must get your dog to focus and take the initial line you ask for.

    Here's a crude sketch of a simple test to see if your dog can go as sent from the mat.
    Take a typical purposely built mound a few feet high with 2' to 3' cover on it.
    Now, stomp the cover flat on either side of your true line to blind making two paths highly visible from the mat and attractive to the dog.
    Now get your dog and run a blind lining him through the high cover. Cheating and following the stomped down paths avoiding the line through the high cover gets the dog a recall etc............

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  3. #33
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    It is not always the program, but the manner in which the trainer goes about teaching.
    No truer words have ever been spoken about retriever training.

    I use a modified Lardy program for basics. Who do you think would turn out a more fundamentally sound post basics dog?

    I'll give you a hint. His first name doesn't begin with an H.
    Howard Niemi

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    This is a real question..

    Is it really a matter of locking onto "SOMTHING" on the horizon,,, or is it more a matter of agood handler setting his dog properly at the line, and training or conditioning the dog to go as sent?
    Gooser
    All the above.
    "Setting a dog at the line" starts with having a dog that will really heel not just sit at you side. That gets the spine and feet right. Conditioning then get the head and eyes in line with the body. Conditioning the young dog that once it sits correctly if they look straight ahead their eyes can focus on the object where they are headed and then they will be sent. As this habit is ingrained in their mind the head and eyes will heel with the rest of body.

    Training, as time goes by more and more blinds are done blinds become a taught "picture"(between 2 trees, down the shore,....) that can be recalled and "locking on that line is evident.

    JMO

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    Last edited by Tim Carrion; 10-03-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtmanring View Post
    My pup is now ten months old and we have been working on blinds. When i say dead bird and line her to my hand, she keeps her head still but her eyes are wandering. She seems to vere the way her eyes are looking. how do i go about fixing this? More sight blinds? I want her to be totaly locked and commited to the line i set for her.
    This thread kinda wandered around this topic. Locking on the "destination" that you want requires two basic things.

    First, a dog that wants to go and is confident there is a bird out there. So he is looking out there somewhere to go!
    Second, a handler who can communicate when the dog is looking at where you want him to--the "destination".

    You need both basics. The first takes time and proper training to cultivate this attitude and momentum for all circumstances. A 10 month old will not be bale to deal with all looks well.

    The second requires all the mechanics of lining up straight, team work, cadence, cues, and ability to change their look. Again a 10 month old cannot be expected to have all these except in simple drills.

    At the line, often less is more but in the case of quality lessons more is more but takes time. Separate handling skills from focus skills at first.
    Dennis

  6. #36
    Senior Member Scott Adams's Avatar
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    One of the biggest and most common mistakes new trainers make is trying for the line before teaching blind running momentum & attitude. This is the usual cause of bugging that can arise after the basics.
    It's a faith thing that a handler needs to have, in the advice given in this thread. Have them looking in the general area instead of straight down the line. Kick'em loose and let em run for at least 1/3rd of the blind before stopping them, to build confidence in running cold blinds. Also run short cold blinds that the dog has a chance of getting too (even if they're off line), before being whistled down.
    I usually line up to something 10yds out, that is in line with the blind. I think the dogs who are running cold blinds with confidence, develop that picture taking ability through time and continually improve.
    Don't try to make a 10 mth old pup do what you see a 3 yr old dog do.
    Last edited by Scott Adams; 10-05-2012 at 06:55 AM.
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    I know this thread is long, and i am not sure that i will get many answers, but how do i create this blind running momentum? i mean my dog is very laid back so shes not a fire breather even on marks, but on blinds she goes probably 3/4 the speed she does on marks. Im thinking real birds should get her fired up.
    Train,Hunt,Enjoy

  8. #38
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Adams View Post
    One of the biggest and most common mistakes new trainers make is trying for the line before teaching blind running momentum & attitude. This is the usual cause of bugging that can arise after the basics.
    It's a faith thing that a handler needs to have, in the advice given in this thread. Have them looking in the general area instead of straight down the line. Kick'em loose and let em run for at least 1/3rd of the blind before stopping them, to build confidence in running cold blinds. Also run short cold blinds that the dog has a chance of getting too (even if they're off line), before being whistled down.
    I usually line up to something 10yds out, that is in line with the blind. I think the dogs who are running cold blinds with confidence, develop that picture taking ability through time and continually improve.
    Don't try to make a 10 mth old pup do what you see a 3 yr old dog do.

    Best post so far! I agree 100%

    Sorry Scott

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
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    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Adams View Post
    One of the biggest and most common mistakes new trainers make is trying for the line before teaching blind running momentum & attitude. This is the usual cause of bugging that can arise after the basics.
    It's a faith thing that a handler needs to have, in the advice given in this thread. Have them looking in the general area instead of straight down the line. Kick'em loose and let em run for at least 1/3rd of the blind before stopping them, to build confidence in running cold blinds. Also run short cold blinds that the dog has a chance of getting too (even if they're off line), before being whistled down.
    I usually line up to something 10yds out, that is in line with the blind. I think the dogs who are running cold blinds with confidence, develop that picture taking ability through time and continually improve.
    Don't try to make a 10 mth old pup do what you see a 3 yr old dog do.
    Agree with Gooser!!!!!! Very nice Scott!
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  10. #40
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    Thanks for the help. I think I am going to move up until the diversion bird is almost 90 degrees so it will be a black-and-white decision for the dog. Hopefully this will lead to more control as we work our way back without loss of momentum on the blinds.

    Unfortunately, my dog understands "no, here" all too well. We have run lots of those drills, as he is a little sensitive and needed to know that, although he didn't do what I asked, everything is still OK and we will just try it again.

    Quote Originally Posted by captainjack View Post
    I think you've got it right. The purpose of the early transition blind drills and PBs with diversions is to get the dog casting, not to get perfect initial lines or lining past old falls and gunners. After some experience with cold blinds, and I have good momentum on some meaty cold blinds, I will gradually require a better and better initial line. Then, I will likely call back for a very poor initial line. I don't think you can put a timetable on it, but the more momentum a dog has on blinds, the more picky you can get. Expose the dog to no-no drills so that the dog understands the call back - try again routine before doing to much of this on cold blinds.

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