Where's the "Middle"

[Marvin S]

Lots and lots of talk during the debate on what will effect the "middle class" tax rate.
Blackstone made a great point about eliminating tax loopholes which could effect those with mortgages, interest income, boats, cars, etc. I can certainly understand that. But is your income "middle"? What's "middle"?
Most here know one of my largest complaints is my effective tax rate (29% last year). I don't even know of any loopholes for me. Not sure how they could close any lol.
But, back to the question...
When the candidates talk about "Middle Class" taxpayers, Exactly what income level are they talking about? I know Obama says "Those families earning less than $250,000" ... but how many of us here consider a family earning $200,000 "middle"?

The average of :
1 7 12 18 24 36 41 55 68 76 88 112 123 289 343 477 601 766 899 991= 251'ish

The middle number in that line up is : 76

!st - It depends on where you live - 2nd - what is hog heaven for some is barely scraping by for others as some consider different things essential -

In 1986 - when the Tax Simplification Act was passed - everyone lost the right to deduct interest on personal loans which would include car, boat, jetski, etc - they still sold . But the killer at the time was capital gains where the effective rate was increased to 28 from 14% -

I don't think that interest on 2nd home S/B deductible, nor should interest above a certain purchase level - say 500K - but that would not cover basic housing in some markets, & would be palatial in others - nor should property taxes be deductible (for the basic reason folks would start complaining more if they were out of pocket + should someone else subsidize your life style) inheritance taxes should be paid on any capital that was not originally taxed, but only at whatever is decided for a capital gains rate. I don't believe anyone rates a windfall at the expense of others.

As for middle - we drink rarely, no one smokes, my biggest vice was the dogs which requires $20K/year/dog to really play, eating out on occasion for the atmosphere as every one that cooks in the family does well so no need to eat out for quality . I would guess we live a middle class life style with a tax rate under 2% of gross - does that make us bigger tax avoiders than RMoneys ?

[zeus3925]

I agree with Romney that we need a overhaul of the tax code. We have a 73000 page tax code vs. 500 pages for Germany and 1000 pages for France. Trouble is with letting the 1%ers reforming the code, it is a bit like letting the fox reorganize the chicken coop.

[road kill]

I agree with Romney that we need a overhaul of the tax code. We have a 73000 page tax code vs. 500 pages for Germany and 1000 pages for France. Trouble is with letting the 1%ers reforming the code, it is a bit like letting the fox reorganize the chicken coop.

So, you would prefer to let those who pay little or no taxes rewrite the code?
Does that make sense to you?

[HPL]

I would be in Hog Heaven if I made $200k.....

I honestly can't even imagine it.

That said, poverty level is defined as less than $23,050 per year and the median income (the point at which 50% make more and 50% make less) is defined at $50,054 per year. So, I guess I'm a little ahead of the game and can be included in the middle class.

Is that per person or per household?

[HPL]

!st - It depends on where you live - 2nd - what is hog heaven for some is barely scraping by for others as some consider different things essential -

In 1986 - when the Tax Simplification Act was passed - everyone lost the right to deduct interest on personal loans which would include car, boat, jetski, etc - they still sold . But the killer at the time was capital gains where the effective rate was increased to 28 from 14% -

I don't think that interest on 2nd home S/B deductible, nor should interest above a certain purchase level - say 500K - but that would not cover basic housing in some markets, & would be palatial in others - nor should property taxes be deductible (for the basic reason folks would start complaining more if they were out of pocket + should someone else subsidize your life style) inheritance taxes should be paid on any capital that was not originally taxed, but only at whatever is decided for a capital gains rate. I don't believe anyone rates a windfall at the expense of others.

As for middle - we drink rarely, no one smokes, my biggest vice was the dogs which requires $20K/year/dog to really play, eating out on occasion for the atmosphere as every one that cooks in the family does well so no need to eat out for quality . I would guess we live a middle class life style with a tax rate under 2% of gross - does that make us bigger tax avoiders than RMoneys ?

Yikes!!!
Guess I'll stick with hunting and playing WITH the dog. There is NOTHING I spend $20,000.00/yr on!!! My mortgage (includes tax and insurance) is a bit under $10,000.00!!! (and I have two rental units on the property) So......if we take the DEM's approach, from my perspective, perhaps we should be soaking you.

[Buzz]

middle class is having just enough money to THINK you can afford to play the dog games....but then the cold hard reality is that it takes,all that and about 25% more just to compete and about double that to be a player

So how much do you think that is? I know exactly how much it costs to run dogs. I'm just curious what income you think it takes to be able to afford it. Is that entry level middle class or upper middle class?

[zeus3925]

So, you would prefer to let those who pay little or no taxes rewrite the code?
Does that make sense to you?

100% - (47%+1%) = 52% left to do the tax code.

[road kill]

100% - (47%+1%) = 52% left to do the tax code.

OK, I'll reword it.

To you, the people who pay the MOST taxes should have NO say in the tax code??

That makes sense to you?????

[BonMallari]

So how much do you think that is? I know exactly how much it costs to run dogs. I'm just curious what income you think it takes to be able to afford it. Is that entry level middle class or upper middle class?

well take me for example....when I was in the mid 70k range just a couple of years ago, I thought I had the resources to run trials without family (read brother assistance)...I was wrong..I too know how much it costs to run dogs, because I have been the one doing the EE thing when Nola/Mirk were on the circuit...

IMO its the travel expenses that eat you alive....for those that use a pro like yourself its no financial picnic either...I think that Marvin's estimate is a good figure to start the discussion...at least in today's world..I just know its out of my financial reach at this time

[Buzz]

well take me for example....when I was in the mid 70k range just a couple of years ago, I thought I had the resources to run trials without family (read brother assistance)...I was wrong..I too know how much it costs to run dogs, because I have been the one doing the EE thing when Nola/Mirk were on the circuit...

IMO its the travel expenses that eat you alive....for those that use a pro like yourself its no financial picnic either...I think that Marvin's estimate is a good figure to start the discussion...at least in today's world..I just know its out of my financial reach at this time

Currently I have two dogs that I've been running all-age. Raven has been double staked lately and I've been running Mick in the Am. That's 3 entry fees a week. Raven is with Steve, I train Mick, although he'll be in Texas for the winter along with Raven and her daughter Peerless. Peerless is 11 months old and I've been training her. She is behind in her yard work. Ideally she would be ready for swim-by and I'm just coming up on T. Holy crap, that cross between Willie and Raven produced a lot of dog... I have been getting to the blinds but not through them week after week. I am coming to the realization that it is going to take me considerably more trial experience to get dogs through all-age blinds. Trial experience doesn't come cheap. What a tough game... Maybe next summer I'll run some master tests to see if these trial dogs can do one.

I'm not sure, but I sometimes I think it is cheaper to use a pro.