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Thread: "no-no" drills for marking

  1. #1
    Member sportlab89's Avatar
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    Default "no-no" drills for marking

    I was wondering if there was any no-no drill versions for marking.

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    In my view "No-no" is a procedure, rather than a drill. There are numerous drills that the procedure works well with. Generally, the procedure works best for de-flaring drills. What are you hoping to achieve, specifically?

    Evan
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    Member sportlab89's Avatar
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    I want my dog to go through obstacles like ditches, patches of cover, and points in a pond rather than around to a mark.

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    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    I assume your dog handels.

    Just throw marks that include cheaty situations and handle.
    Cheating singles at water for example. Hold a very strick standard for the line taken.

    Throw marks on the backside of a fallen log. Start close,, and teach dog by way of handeling to go "Over" and not "around". Gradually back the distance up, so the dog runs straight at the log and jumps over it...

    You can do the same thing to start with in the yard with a couple a cinder blocks, and a 2x6. Lay the 2X^ flat on the ground to start with,,, and tech dog to go over,, then start to increase elevation with cinder blocks..

    I think however, if yu already have a dog that handels well,, just incorporate factors in your marks and blinds,, and train with a high standard, the straight line.. Dont get trapped into the advice,, NOT to handel on marks

    JMHO

    Gooser
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 10-07-2012 at 08:32 AM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
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  5. #5

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    swim-by drill?

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    Senior Member GG's Avatar
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    you'd be surprised at what the water decheating will get you. As mentioned above it begins with the swim-by drill. All of the problems you mentioned will get better at first, then systematically improve as time and training goes on with your dog.
    good luck
    GG
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    I view the no-no drill as a drill to accustom the dog to being called back (primarily for poor initial line) under field conditions. Just lets the dog know, that way was wrong, let's try again. When dogs avoid factors on marks, simply handle the dog as soon as you read the dog is giving in to the factor. Collar pressure may be applied for cast refusals, but may also be appropriate to use attrition.

    At a Lardy workshop I attended, Mike said dogs cheat water, but they negotiate cover. The point made is what may appear to be a clean picture of cover change from the handlers point if view, may not be that clear from a dog's perspective. So the dogs may pic their way through cover. Keep that in mind as you work on this issue.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sportlab89 View Post
    I want my dog to go through obstacles like ditches, patches of cover, and points in a pond rather than around to a mark.
    Generally, to achieve the goals you've stated you need to de-cheat your dog's routes, which you have recognized. However, there are more ways than one to do that, and for many dogs the no-no procedure can really sour them. Usually cheating singles, as Glenn mentioned, are a better vehicle for most de-cheating, especially on water. With regard to ditches, it's usually diagonal routes across them dogs resist, and I think handling is usually better for most dogs than no-no.

    The exception for the items listed would be patches of cover. That is a factor they tend to flare. De-flaring factors like that should be started up close, and using the no-no procedure is usually best. The main concern is based on your dog, and your assessment of how sensitive, how well forced, and pressure conditioned he/she is. Only you can answer that. But if you think the dog is solid, use no-no for short and intermediate distances on those patches of cover, logs, hay bails and other obvious structure the dog is flaring.

    Otherwise, you will probably be better served with handling on routes that contain factors like ditches, and points in a pond, and so forth. I hope that is helpful.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
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  9. #9
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Generally, to achieve the goals you've stated you need to de-cheat your dog's routes, which you have recognized. However, there are more ways than one to do that, and for many dogs the no-no procedure can really sour them. Usually cheating singles, as Glenn mentioned, are a better vehicle for most de-cheating, especially on water. With regard to ditches, it's usually diagonal routes across them dogs resist, and I think handling is usually better for most dogs than no-no.

    The exception for the items listed would be patches of cover. That is a factor they tend to flare. De-flaring factors like that should be started up close, and using the no-no procedure is usually best. The main concern is based on your dog, and your assessment of how sensitive, how well forced, and pressure conditioned he/she is. Only you can answer that. But if you think the dog is solid, use no-no for short and intermediate distances on those patches of cover, logs, hay bails and other obvious structure the dog is flaring.

    Otherwise, you will probably be better served with handling on routes that contain factors like ditches, and points in a pond, and so forth. I hope that is helpful.

    Evan

    ")")")

    Please note the peanut smilin faces before Ya read the followin!

    This is why Us mere mortal GOOBERS dont post here anymore.
    We's just not respected anysmore.
    I suggested the cheaty single girls LOOOOONG befor that lardyite Glen suggested it.. I bet he had to go look through all them fancy articles, that dont have pictures to find the answere too..

    To the OP... You should just ask for Only the Good(taht'll die yoiung) to give advice.. That way,, Goobers like Gooser wont waste anyones time.. or fail to getthe deserved recognition,, which just FORCES guys like me, back into Counciling//

    Goober regards

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    ")")")

    Please note the peanut smilin faces before Ya read the followin!

    This is why Us mere mortal GOOBERS dont post here anymore.
    We's just not respected anysmore.
    I suggested the cheaty single girls LOOOOONG befor that lardyite Glen suggested it.. I bet he had to go look through all them fancy articles, that dont have pictures to find the answere too..

    To the OP... You should just ask for Only the Good(taht'll die yoiung) to give advice.. That way,, Goobers like Gooser wont waste anyones time.. or fail to getthe deserved recognition,, which just FORCES guys like me, back into Counciling//

    Goober regards

    Gooser
    I almost started my last post with...
    I agree with Gooser. Sorry.

    Don't know why Evan gave me credit for the cheating singles deal though. I didn't mention cheating singles as I recall.

    My point, which may have been missed, is that the simple no-no drill done in the yard accustoms your dog to being called back so that when you do use the call back in the field, the dog's attitude will not be crushed (as Evan says though, read the dog).

    Once the dog is accustomed to being called back in the yard, then it can be used as needed under various circumstances in the field. Then it is no longer a drill. It's just a tool to use when running the dog in the field.

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