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Thread: Longtime Republicans torn between party loyalty and Obamacare

  1. #31
    Senior Member achiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PamK View Post
    How about from Harvard:
    Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis.
    Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.
    How many people die each year BECAUSE they have health insurance?
    How many of those that are referenced would still die with health insurance?
    how many of those that are referenced would still not have health insurance under obamacare?
    Referencing any study like this to promote an agenda is just silly. There are just to many "what ifs".
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  2. #32
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PamK View Post
    How about from Harvard:
    Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis.
    Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.
    Why the qualifier?

    As to the second part, correlation doesn't mean causation. One could easily guess that a very large percentage of those without health insurance have many other factors that are influencing their risk of death. I would be willing to bet (a small sum) that a larger percentage of the uninsured are recreational drug users or alcoholics for instance (both would make it more difficult to hold a job and both also make premature death more likely).

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  3. #33
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achiro View Post
    How many people die each year BECAUSE they have health insurance?
    How many of those that are referenced would still die with health insurance?
    how many of those that are referenced would still not have health insurance under obamacare?
    Referencing any study like this to promote an agenda is just silly. There are just to many "what ifs".
    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Why the qualifier?

    As to the second part, correlation doesn't mean causation. One could easily guess that a very large percentage of those without health insurance have many other factors that are influencing their risk of death. I would be willing to bet (a small sum) that a larger percentage of the uninsured are recreational drug users or alcoholics for instance (both would make it more difficult to hold a job and both also make premature death more likely).

    Good points.

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by PamK View Post
    How about from Harvard:
    Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis.
    Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.
    Pam, I actually wonder if you believe such nonsense. 45,000/year?? Show me ONE news article where someone died because a doctor or healthcare facility DENIED treatment to an individual because of lack of insurance. SHOW ME JUST ONE EXAMPLE of these 45,000 , PLEASE!!! As to good care, someone dies every day for lack of good care, in fact someone dies because of good care AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INSURANCE. Let me clear up a minor point. The gov. or insurance has never treated a patient. DOCTORS TREAT PATIENTS FOR YOUR INFORMATION.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139 View Post
    Let me ask you a simple question. Do you think fat people who are known to be at higher risk based on their weight should pay more??? I mean anyone can control their weight if they try!
    This is my first time looking at the POTUS place on the forum and I saw this comment and decided to post.

    First of all, let me say I am NOT NOT NOT a fan of Obamacare. However, this post caught my eye and quite frankly kind of got my "hackles up". Not everyone who is "fat" can control their weight. There are various medical conditions that can cause obesity that have absolutely nothing to do with diet and exercise. One of my good friends in college was a VERY large guy. He actually ate pretty well and healthy with healthy portion sizes. Because of his size, he was not able to do much exercising other than walking. He was always a bigger guy and never really knew why. He became very ill with meningitis and when he was sent in for a CT scan because he suffered a brain bleed, they found that he had a tumor in his brain that causes and condition known as "Cushing's disease". This turned out to be the cause of his weight issues. So like I said, not everyone can control their weight if they try, like you pointed out....
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  6. #36
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan View Post
    from CNN Health:

    "A national health care consumer advocacy group estimates that three Americans die every hour as a result of not having health insurance.

    According to "Dying for Coverage," the latest report by Families USA, 72 Americans die each day, 500 Americans die every week and approximately Americans 2,175 die each month, due to lack of health insurance."

    --Susan
    Do you know anything about what happens under gov't controlled medicine such as the UK? I can tell you that had my grandmother been in the US she may have survived her heart attack but was simply placed in a ward no ICU and left to die. Say what you want but that is the cold harsh fact.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PamK View Post
    How about from Harvard:
    Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis.
    Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.
    Maybe those people should make better choices. Simple to see some examples and we all know them. The person that has an $800 car payment yet fails to carry health insurance.
    I'm tired of bleeding heart liberals refusing to hold people responsible for their personal choices.
    Some people just refuse to be responsible. Let me give you a factual example. I was the payroll and HR manager for a company that had 100% employer paid family medical. With that great benefit some employees were either totally lazy, stupid, or whatever that they did not bother to attempt to add a newborn to their coverage. This did not cost them a dime but rather 5 minutes to grab a form and fill it out within 30 days of birth and turn it in. 95% of our employees were male so it's not like they were on leave. You have no idea how many were running around the shop handing out cigars but ignored the insurance issue.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  8. #38
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamee Strange View Post
    This is my first time looking at the POTUS place on the forum and I saw this comment and decided to post.

    First of all, let me say I am NOT NOT NOT a fan of Obamacare. However, this post caught my eye and quite frankly kind of got my "hackles up". Not everyone who is "fat" can control their weight. There are various medical conditions that can cause obesity that have absolutely nothing to do with diet and exercise. One of my good friends in college was a VERY large guy. He actually ate pretty well and healthy with healthy portion sizes. Because of his size, he was not able to do much exercising other than walking. He was always a bigger guy and never really knew why. He became very ill with meningitis and when he was sent in for a CT scan because he suffered a brain bleed, they found that he had a tumor in his brain that causes and condition known as "Cushing's disease". This turned out to be the cause of his weight issues. So like I said, not everyone can control their weight if they try, like you pointed out....
    I will concede that point based on nothing else than making this dog related my Piper's weight could not be controled until he was diagnosed with low thyroid. Even on meds he still gets less in a day than some of the others get at one meal. I feed 2X's per day. So that being said let me rephrase and say that the majority of obese people can simply do something about the issue with a bit of effort.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  9. #39
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Pam you bring up a very good point.

    Folks need to look at this for what is best for them instead of this ideology that the republicans are going to balance the budget, reduce the national debt and do this by cutting out wellfare. Never has happened nor will it happen. So vote for the guy that wants to make healthcare more available. If you are old or getting old, do you want someone in there that wants to cut the programs for the older folks so they can keep giving money to the pentagon. Do you want someone in the whitehouse that wants to do away with the safety nets for the working class folks. It is easy to say you don't need this stuff now but as we get older and life changes our situation, these safety nets become important.

  10. #40
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    Obama is to sneaky what hes doing do medicare is horible and that will affect all of us in time. They say under Obamacare it will be worse than medicaid you wont even be able to find a Dr. He has take 716 million out to pay obamacare and thats a fact .
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