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Thread: Fuel Prices

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Have a link for that info?

    We have always exported diesel and gas. Yet, you still don't know how the price of fuel is determined! Fuel retailers can buy all the fuel they want. Domestic supply is up but the dollar is weak!
    http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/...ting-gasoline/

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42465.pdf
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    I agreed with you and I said we have always exported gas and diesel!

    I was asking for a link that backs up your theory that producers are manipulating prices by limiting production. US and Saudi production are at all time highs!
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    I agreed with you and I said we have always exported gas and diesel!

    I was asking for a link that backs up your theory that producers are manipulating prices by limiting production. US and Saudi production are at all time highs!
    Not limiting production; limiting what is available for use in the USA. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.-Paul
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    Not limiting production; limiting what is available for use in the USA. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.-Paul
    Have prices commensurately increased in other parts of the world?

    Or could that increase be due to the weak dollar since the dollar is the currency that oil products are priced with?

    And, I think there has to be some truth in the fact that the cost of gasoline (and other energy) has compelled people to use less of both in any way that they can think of. (driving less, using wood for home heating; setting thermostats higher in summer and lower in winter).

    The problem is that conservation of energy has not decreased the overall cost to consumers; it has not created more disposable income ... in fact, in spite of conservation, consumers are paying more for the lesser amounts of energy they use.

    Seems reasonable to me that if the US were committed to a long-term increase in the supply of oil and natural gas, the energy markets would stabilize. Presently those markets are subject to a lot of variation because the expectation is that the US is subject to a lot of variation.

    When EPA's coal limitations are implemented fully, it could be disaster. The vast majority of electricity in Ohio is coal-generated. If Ohio goes for Obama, they could live to regret that greatly when the EPA regs kick in for coal plants.

    The report cites that imported oil is now ONLY 45% of domestic usage. Though down from 60%, that means we're still greatly dependent on outside sources for our energy.

    OTOH, I would agree with the first analysis ... if we import raw material in order to refine that raw material and sell it back to the raw material supplier at a profit, then that should result in a favorable balance of trade for the US. Conversely, it should also be beneficial to use our own raw materials to sell within our own country if it can be done to price advantage.

    Since the US energy supply is now estimated to far exceed the supplies in many of the countries from which we now import, eventually, if those countries deplete their own supplies, we will be using our own raw materials to produce an even larger US-favorable balance of trade? Or is that too simplistic a conclusion?
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Have prices commensurately increased in other parts of the world?

    Or could that increase be due to the weak dollar since the dollar is the currency that oil products are priced with?

    And, I think there has to be some truth in the fact that the cost of gasoline (and other energy) has compelled people to use less of both in any way that they can think of. (driving less, using wood for home heating; setting thermostats higher in summer and lower in winter).

    The problem is that conservation of energy has not decreased the overall cost to consumers; it has not created more disposable income ... in fact, in spite of conservation, consumers are paying more for the lesser amounts of energy they use.

    Seems reasonable to me that if the US were committed to a long-term increase in the supply of oil and natural gas, the energy markets would stabilize. Presently those markets are subject to a lot of variation because the expectation is that the US is subject to a lot of variation.

    When EPA's coal limitations are implemented fully, it could be disaster. The vast majority of electricity in Ohio is coal-generated. If Ohio goes for Obama, they could live to regret that greatly when the EPA regs kick in for coal plants.

    The report cites that imported oil is now ONLY 45% of domestic usage. Though down from 60%, that means we're still greatly dependent on outside sources for our energy.

    OTOH, I would agree with the first analysis ... if we import raw material in order to refine that raw material and sell it back to the raw material supplier at a profit, then that should result in a favorable balance of trade for the US. Conversely, it should also be beneficial to use our own raw materials to sell within our own country if it can be done to price advantage.

    Since the US energy supply is now estimated to far exceed the supplies in many of the countries from which we now import, eventually, if those countries deplete their own supplies, we will be using our own raw materials to produce an even larger US-favorable balance of trade? Or is that too simplistic a conclusion?
    The USA has never had any reasonable Energy Policy that would help us lessen our addiction to oil. Green Energy is not a solution anytime soon.
    If we really wanted to see the price at the pump drop, we would take T Boone Pickens advice and convert out autos and trucks to CNG. And, that won't happen until the Dept Of Energy gets off its arse and functions in the role that they were originally created to do!
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

  6. #16
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...ditorialPage_h

    Ken Salazar's position on drilling in Alaska won't be helping us out very soon.

    President Obama is campaigning as a champion of the oil and gas boom he's had nothing to do with, and even as his regulators try to stifle it. The latest example is the Interior Department's little-noticed August decision to close off from drilling nearly half of the 23.5 million acre National Petroleum Reserve in Alaska.

    The area is called the National Petroleum Reserve because in 1976 Congress designated it as a strategic oil and natural gas stockpile to meet the "energy needs of the nation." Alaska favors exploration in nearly the entire reserve. The feds had been reviewing four potential development plans, and the state of Alaska had strongly objected to the most restrictive of the four. Sure enough, that was the plan Interior chose.

    Interior Secretary Ken Salazar says his plan "will help the industry bring energy safely to market from this remote location, while also protecting wildlife and subsistence rights of Alaska Natives." He added that the proposal will expand "safe and responsible oil and gas development, and builds on our efforts to help companies develop the infrastructure that's needed to bring supplies online."


    ...
    Alaskans also worry that the National Petroleum Reserve will become the same political football as the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve, or ANWR, which Washington has barred from drilling because of dubious environmental objections. The greens now want Congress to rename the energy reserve the "Western Arctic Reserve" to give the false impression that it is a fragile wildlife area. Some parts of the area are environmentally sensitive, but those 1.5 million acres (around Teshekpuk Lake) had already been set aside. Most of the other 11.5 million acres are almost indistinguishable from acreage owned by the state that is being drilled safely nearby.

    ...
    The Interior power play couldn't come at a worse time for Alaska, whose economy and government are heavily reliant on oil jobs and revenues. As recently as the 1980s, the Trans-Alaska Pipeline carried some 2.2 million barrels of oil a day from the North Slope to the port of Valdez. Yet as the once-rich fields of Prudhoe Bay and the Kuparuk River have declined, oil flow has dropped to one-third of that volume. North Dakota recently passed Alaska as the second highest oil-producing state behind Texas.

    The problem isn't that Alaska is running out of oil but that federal rules are preventing the state from developing those resources. No matter what Mr. Obama says now, in a second term his great Alaska energy shutout will continue.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    From the NY Times
    May24th 2012

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/24/sc...pagewanted=all


    Industry experts and national security officials view the Alaskan Arctic as the last great domestic oil prospect, one that over time could bring the country a giant step closer to cutting its dependence on foreign oil.
    But many Alaska Natives and environmental advocates say drilling threatens wildlife and pristine shorelines, and perpetuates the nation’s reliance on dirty fossil fuels.
    In blessing Shell’s move into the Arctic, Mr. Obama continues his efforts to balance business and environmental interests, seemingly project by project. He pleased environmentalists by delaying the Keystone XL pipeline from Canada and by adopting tough air standards for power plants, yet he has also delighted business concerns by rejecting an ozone standard deemed too costly to the economy.
    And now, the president is writing a new chapter in the nation’s unfolding energy transformation, in this case to the benefit of fossil fuel producers.
    “We never would have expected a Democratic president — let alone one seeking to be ‘transformative’ — to open up the Arctic Ocean for drilling,” said Michael Brune, executive director of the Sierra Club.


    Also, don't forget that Brazil's offshore production will be online soon adding millions a day to the world supply and that drilling in our gulf is at full speed. These are just temp fixes as demand continues to grow. As a country we need to convert our our passenger vehicles to either Hydrogen or CNG or we will always be facing rising prices for gasoline! At some point in time, we consumers need to be responsible!

    Also, between a disastrous monetary and energy policy over the last 50 years, importing oil is killing the value of the dollar.
    Last edited by Franco; 10-15-2012 at 04:54 PM.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    What's the deal? Diesel has gone from $3.88 to $4.05 in one week and is higher than all grades of gasoline. I guess Obama can juggle the fictional unemployment numbers but there is not much he can do about the real world fuel prices.
    The price 2 days later went from $4.05 to $4.15.
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  9. #19
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    You're using the liberal NYT as a source?



    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    From the NY Times
    May24th 2012

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/24/sc...pagewanted=all


    Industry experts and national security officials view the Alaskan Arctic as the last great domestic oil prospect, one that over time could bring the country a giant step closer to cutting its dependence on foreign oil.
    But many Alaska Natives and environmental advocates say drilling threatens wildlife and pristine shorelines, and perpetuates the nation’s reliance on dirty fossil fuels.
    In blessing Shell’s move into the Arctic, Mr. Obama continues his efforts to balance business and environmental interests, seemingly project by project. He pleased environmentalists by delaying the Keystone XL pipeline from Canada and by adopting tough air standards for power plants, yet he has also delighted business concerns by rejecting an ozone standard deemed too costly to the economy.
    And now, the president is writing a new chapter in the nation’s unfolding energy transformation, in this case to the benefit of fossil fuel producers.
    “We never would have expected a Democratic president — let alone one seeking to be ‘transformative’ — to open up the Arctic Ocean for drilling,” said Michael Brune, executive director of the Sierra Club.


    Also, don't forget that Brazil's offshore production will be online soon adding millions a day to the world supply and that drilling in our gulf is at full speed. These are just temp fixes as demand continues to grow. As a country we need to convert our our passenger vehicles to either Hydrogen or CNG or we will always be facing rising prices for gasoline! At some point in time, we consumers need to be responsible!

    Also, between a disastrous monetary and energy policy over the last 50 years, importing oil is killing the value of the dollar.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    You're using the liberal NYT as a source?
    It is not an opinion piece!

    Much of the offshore technology is coming from here and creating jobs here in S Louisiana! Support companies are spending a fortune trying to recruit workers all over La, Tx, Ok. A welder can make over $150,000. for nine months of work if they are willing to move up there. A lot on the geology is being done here and Houston.
    “The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” –Thomas Jefferson

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