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Thread: Thoughts on the Controversy of the Happy Bumper

  1. #71
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2tall View Post
    /\/\/\/\/\!!! This! I just do not Do happy bumpers anymore. I or the dogs stand way too much chance of getting hurt than any benefit that could come from it. I can find lots of other ways to let them release steam or tell them "good dog!"
    Isn't that a bit of an over reaction. I'm much more likely to get a bleeding hand like the pic from a 10 week old pup being a pup than tossing a fun bumper for any of my crew. I don't get the increased risk of injury to the dog. I they are going out on a mark full force how is that a lower risk than a fun summer bumper tossed in the pool?
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  2. #72
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    ANYTHING can be over done.
    the old true-ism is do not nag your dog.
    and the "good, good, good" all the time can be as usless as the underpowered, repeated nick from the collar or "no, no no" from the underpowered handler.

    when you praise your dog, praise um good!
    when you beat your dog, beat um good!
    but the constant, whinny, half sass way, of ether becomes usless background noise that the dog quickly learns to just work through as it does what it wants.
    BTW, that tone thing being one or the other???? you can do both. Just like you can praise or beat with your heeling stick.
    I agree on all counts, but it sure is much easier to say than it is to actually do (quit nagging). But I am slowly getting there.
    Last edited by RookieTrainer; 11-20-2013 at 07:20 PM.
    Steve Wyatt

    HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"

  3. #73
    Member Jere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RookieTrainer View Post
    ...
    For those who have trained several dogs, I wonder if you can "over praise" a dog that is not as absolutely sure it is right as mine is. Could you praise to the point that the dog needed the praise to really commit to whatever you are asking him to do?
    If by "over praise" you mean a long stream of "Good good good good ..." or such extending well past the behavior event which prompted your praise in the first place; you can bet the farm you can "over praise." After the initial praise (positive reinforcement - hopefully) of the desired behavior, the dog undoubtedly does something else in response and subsequent praise is reinforcing of that behavior and on and on. If these subsequent behaviors are not desired you're creating a sequence of behavior you'll need to change in the future. Short and quick immediately after the desired behavior is all you need.

    Jere

  4. #74
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
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    I was really asking about over praising over time, not in response to a particular behavior, but your comment about timing in relation to a behavior - good or bad - is always good to hear and think about again.
    Steve Wyatt

    HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"

  5. #75
    Senior Member rboudet's Avatar
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    Too much praise can make it become meaningless. Same as a come in whistle. It's better to use it when you really need it.

  6. #76
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rboudet View Post
    Too much praise can make it become meaningless. Same as a come in whistle. It's better to use it when you really need it.
    My thoughts exactly on both counts.
    Steve Wyatt

    HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"

  7. #77

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    Years ago, a nationally famous retriever trainer, Cotton Pershall, told me after I had thrown a fun bumper for my dog to never let a dog break once it is steady. I got to thinking about that and came to this conclusion, if I never let my dog break there is no confusion on his part as to whether it was a fun retrieve or not. This keeps everything in black and white, you never leave the line until sent. Years later I attended a Mike Lardy seminar where I was introduced to therapy marks where the dog remained steady but was given an exciting mark like a fun dummy retrieve. So although I never let my dog break, I do incorporate therapy marks into my training.

  8. #78

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    HB's and "fractures" are simply tools, and really boil down to positive reinforcement when used sparingly. Rex would "fracture" a dog who had a long tough session learning something new, and only after the dog had visibly "got it". Sometimes all it would take to get a softer dog out of a funk was a low "whoop" from Rex after the dog figured it out.
    _______
    SuperX

  9. #79
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    I had some recent exchange regarding the use or perhaps "over use" of Happy Bumpers.

    I plugged the phrase "happy bumper" into the advanced search referenced in the sticky note at the top of the page and found this topic originated by Dennis.

    I felt it appropriate to bump this to the top.

    Interestingly, one of the participants used the term "junk food" in this discussion. Today I referenced "happy Bumpers" to one person as the prospect of giving ice cream to a picky eater child before each meal. This could lead to the child balking at the nutritional components of the meal.

    Why eat the brussel sprouts when you already got fed the ice cream?

    Food for thought....excuse the pun.

    Chris
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  10. #80
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    Good read forwarded it to a few of my training partners, I don't use them either, the spinning, sharp turns and sudden stops are only trouble as far as I'm concerned.

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