The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ... 78910 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 93

Thread: Thoughts on the Controversy of the Happy Bumper

  1. #81
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Souf Joisy
    Posts
    2,751

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FinnLandR View Post
    Because I happen to like brussel spouts....

    I don't use fun bumpers with Tonka because he is loose enough already due to our limited training time. He needs to keep his head on straight.
    You might want to think in just the opposite terms and try to teach him the correct responses when he's at his "loosest".

    I never thought about that concept until a day when I was making an effort to bring a dog down a bit before an odor imprinting exercise. I was just tired of her pulling my arm off and wanted her to calm down and listen. I also thought she would do better at the exercise, and she probably would have but my boss at the time told me to let her be high...

    Later I asked why and what he said made a lot of sense. "She has to learn to think when she is that excited."

    Based on his instruction and the statement I believe he meant "If we never train the dog when they are hyper excited, they won't be able to perform when they are."

    "Happy bumpers" can be valuable to build or maintain drive either right before or in the middle of a drill using static objects. T work is perhaps the place they seem to make the most sense.

    No different than giving a dog a few treats simply for paying attention prior to starting a more complex exercise.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 05-06-2014 at 09:22 PM.
    Darrin Greene

  2. #82
    Senior Member Jeffrey Towler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Perry MI
    Posts
    535

    Default

    I don't throw happy bumpers. It can cause the dog to get hurt.

  3. #83
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Souf Joisy
    Posts
    2,751

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FinnLandR View Post
    While I agree with your theory, I disagree with this last statement. It is different, as treats are not likely to cause a knee to blow or tendons to tear from a rapid directional change.

    I think there are better ways to achieve the same goal. For my boy, a good chest rub and "Good boy" gets just as much of a response as fun bumper.

    To each his own, however.
    A chest rub can not get the same neurological response as chasing a bumper Cory, unless you very carefully paired it with a chase.

    If you rubbed his chest then immediately threw a bumper enough times, the chest rub would become predictive and the neurological response would still take place (think Pavlov). The chest rub alone won't get the same hormonal response (I don't think).

    I obviously respect anyone's decision not to risk injury to their dog though.
    Darrin Greene

  4. #84
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Mount Zion, IL
    Posts
    6,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    A chest rub can not get the same neurological response as chasing a bumper Cory, unless you very carefully paired it with a chase.

    If you rubbed his chest then immediately threw a bumper enough times, the chest rub would become predictive and the neurological response would still take place (think Pavlov). The chest rub alone won't get the same hormonal response (I don't think).

    I obviously respect anyone's decision not to risk injury to their dog though.
    One thing that was mentioned in the start of this thread was the notion of doing a "happy bumper" to induce prey drive, using an orange bumper and throwing into some cover. One thought is that this is less likely to result in the extreme stopping and turning that could result from a white bumper on a mowed lawn.
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  5. #85
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    27

    Default

    Would you classify "fun" or "happy" bumpers as those that I throw for my 4 month old pup? The kind where she breaks and rolls/flips over the bumper to grab it and bring it back? I realize much at this age is not yet taught but learned but just wanted to verify. My apologies if this was addressed. Great read though and puts things into perspective for a newbie.

  6. #86
    Senior Member Karen Klotthor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Slidell , LA
    Posts
    702

    Default

    I make my dog sit and watch happy bumpers, she is never allowed to chase it in while bumper is in the air. She has too much drive and tends to break on honor and that is without her ever having REAL HAPPY BUMPERS

  7. #87
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    N. Cackalacky
    Posts
    2,459

    Default

    Just curious: what exactly about happy bumpers is so bad? I read about the potential for injury but it doesn't seem to be any higher than lots of other things we do with our dogs. For those of you who don't do happy bumpers, do you skip other things that create sharp turns, etc, like pile work, wagon wheel drills--even regular marks?

    I really can't see the difference whether I hand throw my dog a bumper or send him on a wagon wheel lining drill in terms of potential for injury.

  8. #88
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lebanon, OH
    Posts
    623

    Default

    Nothing bad but 2 things I could do without.

    1.) The dog is learning absolutely nothing. Just make it sit in front of you and toss the bumper over one side and give a cast. This helps with steady, sitting straight and taking different angles casts even with a pup.

    2.) I always work on being steady. This just gives them permission to break or creep.
    Last edited by Dan Storts; 05-08-2014 at 10:19 AM.

  9. #89
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Mount Zion, IL
    Posts
    6,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleHaul View Post
    Just curious: what exactly about happy bumpers is so bad? I read about the potential for injury but it doesn't seem to be any higher than lots of other things we do with our dogs. For those of you who don't do happy bumpers, do you skip other things that create sharp turns, etc, like pile work, wagon wheel drills--even regular marks?

    I really can't see the difference whether I hand throw my dog a bumper or send him on a wagon wheel lining drill in terms of potential for injury.
    I think Dennis V's initial post to start this thread makes it pretty clear.

    I referenced the idea of the happy bumper possibly being overused and turning into "junk food".

    I believe it certainly can have its applications and benefits. But I believe many people overuse them. I think they can do more harm than good.
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  10. #90
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    N. Cackalacky
    Posts
    2,459

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson View Post
    I think Dennis V's initial post to start this thread makes it pretty clear.

    I referenced the idea of the happy bumper possibly being overused and turning into "junk food".

    I believe it certainly can have its applications and benefits. But I believe many people overuse them. I think they can do more harm than good.
    Chris, I do get the "junk food" analogy and that they can be over used--it is the injury potential part I don't understand.

    Personally, I do like the use of them at the beginning of a training session--particularly yard work--to get the dog in the frame of mind, a la Hillmann.

    What I don't get is how folks talk about the potential for injury. Perhaps I throw them differently but I see no way that they could be any more injurious than other retrieving stuff. The dog running wide open to a pile stops and twists quickly as does the dog that is running full bore to a 200 yard mark and suddenly sees the bird right in front of his feet. What am I missing?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •