The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 9 of 29 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 290

Thread: Security at the Libyan Embassy in Benghazi

  1. #81
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Wetumpka, AL
    Posts
    2,961

    Default

    I don't know where the AC-130 aircraft were but the fact that they didn't try to get them in the fight is telling. The AC-130 comes in several variants and some would have been spectacular for this (AC-130W/Stinger II) and some less so. Which ones were where, we dunno.

    All special air operations are controlled out of Hurlburt Field, FL. So, the mission would go something like the Sec of State asking for help, the President tasking the DoD to come up with a plan, the DoD tasking the AF Special Ops Command to develop a plan, AFSOC looking at the assets in Europe and coming up with a plan. Then comes the approval process, the reverse of the tasking. Once the President approves the plan, the word "go" is given. All of this can be done in a reasonably short time but it would take a couple of hours. I was very tangentially with the planning of Operation El Dorado Canyon which took about a week. The days of "Top Gun" and "kick the tires, light the fires, first one in the air is the leader" are gone.

    The AC-130 (all variants) cruise at about 300 mph. If they were located at Ramstein or Rhein-Mein air bases in Germany, they'd have had about a 4 hour flight just to get there. Some mission planning could have been done enroute but, some things need to be done before they even lift off...like fueling and arming. The days of having armed and fueled aircraft sitting at the end of the runway for 5 minute launch are gone.

    All told, it probably would have taken 5-6 hours to have the right aircraft overhead and in a position to do some good. However, the fact that they didn't even try to get the consulate some help is rather shameful. President Obama talks about the US as still the most powerful nation on earth but what good is that if we won't use it?

    I guess what I'm saying is that if we think of two timelines, one for the time it would take to get aircraft overhead and one that describes the length of time they would be under attack, there's no way to know how long the latter would go on but we could calculate the former. Since the latter could well have been a very extended time, why was no effort expended to complete the former timeline?
    Last edited by Eric Johnson; 10-30-2012 at 05:28 PM.
    Eric

    WRC HR Lennoxlove's Run with Wolves JH, WCX ("Cheyenne") ... still so fondly remembered
    HRCh Struan's Devil's in De Tails SH, WCX ("Lucy")
    SR CH Struan's Flight of Fancy JH ("Muse")
    Struan's Master of the Hunt JH, WC ("Charlie")
    Struan's Just Plain Perfect ("Jane")
    Struan's Driving Us Crazy ("Daisy") ... the baby in charge

  2. #82
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    MRGV New Mexico
    Posts
    3,438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Since both entities are on the representative nations soviern ground, and either an Ambassador or a Counsel requested help from an eminent attack,
    Please explain to gooser what difference it makes?
    Google is your friend /
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  3. #83
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    Google is your friend /

    I DID Google it!! What the Hell,, Ya think Gooser just knows this sh&%!

    Google told me they was the same,, One deals with Government,, the other deals with Trade..

    But,, they is both soviern Ground,, supported by representative nations citizens,, So you tell me,, Are you insinuating one gets protection,, and the udder donts??

    Or does one have the Wallstreet gurus as protection,, and the Udder have the U.S. Government...

    Please help Gooser out...

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  4. #84
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    New Berlin, WI
    Posts
    10,786

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    There seems to be some confusion about what is an embassy and what is a consulate. Also some confusion about Navy Seals and former Navy Seals.
    Great call Jdogger!!!

    #1--Once a Seal always a Seal.
    You probably wouldn't understand!!

    #2--In regard to confusion, let's see if I can help:

    spon·ta·ne·ous/spänˈtānēəs/


    Adjective

    1.Performed or occurring without premeditation or external stimulus
    planned n.
    1. A scheme, program, or method worked out beforehand for the accomplishment of an objective: a plan of attack
    There, maybe that will help where it REALLY counts!!!
    Stan b & Elvis

  5. #85
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brookings, South Dakota
    Posts
    6,816

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Before the mob hangs anyone, I think we owe it to the accused to find out what the truth is.

    I just did a Google search and even the Libian press in't covering this accusation. Other then Fox News and kooks like Beck, no one has been able to substantiate the alleged story!

    Again, if this information is true, then why was it leaked only to Fox and not the bigger media outlets? Why haven't the other media outlets been able to verify this information by now?

    I don't care for Obama or Romney but, I am interested in the truth!

    If the information is true, then I expect Obama to go down. And, if the information is false, then I expect Fox News to lose their lisence to broadcast in the USA.
    Franco, what we have here are several severe cases of Obama derangement syndrome. And didn't you realize that there is no law against a "news outlet" lying? Faux News asserted that argument, and won... You should be able to find something about it with Google.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

    Raven - Moneybird's Black Magic Marker***
    (Esprit's Power Play x Trumarc's Lean Cuisine)
    Mick - Moneybird's Jumpin' Jack Flash***
    (Clubmead's Road Warrior x Oakdale Whitewater Devil Dog)
    Peerless - Moneybird's Sole Survivor
    (Two River's Lucky Willie x Moneybird's Black Magic Marker)

  6. #86
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brookings, South Dakota
    Posts
    6,816

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post

    Franco, what we have here are several severe cases of Obama derangement syndrome. And didn't you realize that there is no law against a "news outlet" lying? Faux News asserted that argument, and won... You should be able to find something about it with Google.
    I meant to say that they asserted that argument in court. Don't know how to edit a post in the mobile forum software on my iPhone so I had to reply to my own post... What a pita.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

    Raven - Moneybird's Black Magic Marker***
    (Esprit's Power Play x Trumarc's Lean Cuisine)
    Mick - Moneybird's Jumpin' Jack Flash***
    (Clubmead's Road Warrior x Oakdale Whitewater Devil Dog)
    Peerless - Moneybird's Sole Survivor
    (Two River's Lucky Willie x Moneybird's Black Magic Marker)

  7. #87
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, La.
    Posts
    10,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Franco, what we have here are several severe cases of Obama derangement syndrome. And didn't you realize that there is no law against a "news outlet" lying? Faux News asserted that argument, and won... You should be able to find something about it with Google.
    These are the only two stories I could find disputing Fox News.
    http://www.examiner.com/article/four...-benghazi-gate

    http://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-denie...124552273.html

    I do know that cable news is not held to the same standards as broadcast news because of the FCC. THe FCC only oversees broadcast stations and not cable. Probably why the big news outlets(broadcast) didn't touch it. Had they been able to confirm reputable sources then they would have been all over it.

    However, all media is subject to liable and defamation. Which is why Fox dumped Beck. He was a loose cannon that made crap up on the fly. If this story proves to be a farce, will Hannity be next?

    I don't watch Fox News and am wondering if Romney has been a guest on O'Reilly or Hannity in the last several months? Just like he avoids Rush like the plague, so credit Romney with that. I would imagine he has stayed away from those two just like he stayed away from THE story.


    Hannity to his story's source..
    Last edited by Franco; 10-30-2012 at 10:03 PM.
    It's time we abandon our party affiliations and rather than being good Dems or good Repubs we all become good Americans. MJH345

  8. #88
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Royse City, TX
    Posts
    5,197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    These are the only two stories I could find disputing Fox News.
    http://www.examiner.com/article/four...-benghazi-gate

    http://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-denie...124552273.html

    I do know that cable news is not held to the same standards as broadcast news because of the FCC. THe FCC only oversees broadcast stations and not cable. Probably why the big news outlets(broadcast) didn't touch it. Had they been able to confirm reputable sources then they would have been all over it.

    However, all media is subject to liable and defamation. Which is why Fox dumped Beck. He was a loose cannon that made crap up on the fly. If this story proves to be a farce, will Hannity be next?

    I don't watch Fox News and am wondering if Romney has been a guest on O'Reilly or Hannity in the last several months? Just like he avoids Rush like the plague, so credit Romney with that. I would imagine he has stayed away from those two just like he stayed away from THE story.


    Hannity to his story's source..
    Bill was complaining tonight that he couldn't get Romney to come on his show. Rush doesn't have guests. If you listened/watched some of the other programs, maybe you would actually know everything you think you know.
    M&K's HR UH Tucker of Texoma JH
    M&K's SHR Prime Black Angus
    M&K's Miss Jessie Girl JH
    Sir Jacob of Lakeview-Jake
    Freeway JYD

    Mike Whitworth

  9. #89
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    LV/CenTex/Idaho
    Posts
    12,693

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    These are the only two stories I could find disputing Fox News.
    http://www.examiner.com/article/four...-benghazi-gate

    http://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-denie...124552273.html

    I do know that cable news is not held to the same standards as broadcast news because of the FCC. THe FCC only oversees broadcast stations and not cable. Probably why the big news outlets(broadcast) didn't touch it. Had they been able to confirm reputable sources then they would have been all over it.

    However, all media is subject to liable and defamation. Which is why Fox dumped Beck. He was a loose cannon that made crap up on the fly. If this story proves to be a farce, will Hannity be next?

    I don't watch Fox News and am wondering if Romney has been a guest on O'Reilly or Hannity in the last several months? Just like he avoids Rush like the plague, so credit Romney with that. I would imagine he has stayed away from those two just like he stayed away from THE story.


    Hannity to his story's source..



    Its not Hannity that broke the story.....the story was broken by Fox Pentagon correspondent Jennifer Griffin and Catherine Herridge ...Both Brett Baier and others on Fox asked Griffin on air how credible her sources are, and she replied "impeccable"

    whether you like or believe Fox News, you have to look at this like you do Fast and Furious, you dont call out the State Dept, the CIA, and the Oval Office unless you have the proof in hand, this is not some fishing expedition, probably the reason the other networks havent picked up the story is that they do not possess the same proof that Fox has obtained, they would be foolish to run with a story if they dont have the same sources..

    Fox has two choices, either they expose their source - which they wont do, or

    hope that their source comes out in public and confirms what they have reported

    Here is a good synopsis by David Ignatius from the Washington Post

    The attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi has become a political football in the presidential campaign, with all the grandstanding and misinformation that entails. But Fox News has raised some questions about the attack that deserve a clearer answer from the Obama administration.

    Fox’s Jennifer Griffin reported Friday that CIA officers in Benghazi had been told to “stand down” when they wanted to deploy from their base at the annex to repel the attack on the consulate, about a mile away. Fox also reported that the CIA officers requested military support when the annex came under fire later that night but that their request had been denied







    The Benghazi tragedy was amplified by Charles Woods, the father of slain CIA contractor Tyrone Woods. He told Fox’s Sean Hannity that White House officials who didn’t authorize military strikes to save the embattled CIA annex were “cowards” and “are guilty of murdering my son.”

    The Fox “stand down” story prompted a strong rebuttal from the CIA: “We can say with confidence that the agency reacted quickly to aid our colleagues during that terrible evening in Benghazi. Moreover, no one at any level in the CIA told anybody not to help those in need; claims to the contrary are simply inaccurate.”

    So what did happen in Benghazi on the night of Sept. 11, when Woods, Ambassador Christopher Stevens and two others Americans were killed? The best way to establish the facts would be a detailed, unclassified timeline of events; officials say they are preparing one, and that it may be released later this week. That’s a must, even in the volatile final week of the campaign. In the meantime, here’s a summary of some of the basic issues that need to be clarified.

    First, on the question of whether Woods and others were made to wait when they asked permission to move out immediately to try to rescue those at the consulate. The answer seems to be yes, but not for very long. There was a brief, initial delay — two people said it was about 20 minutes — before Woods was allowed to leave. One official said Woods and at least one other CIA colleague were “in the car revving the engine,” waiting for permission to go. Woods died about six hours later, after he returned to the annex.

    The main reason for the delay, several sources said, was that CIA officials were making urgent contact with a Libyan militia, known as the February 17 Brigade, which was the closest thing to an organized security force in Benghazi. The United States depends on local security to protect U.S. diplomatic facilities everywhere, and officials wanted to coordinate any response to the consulate attack. After this delay, Woods and his colleague proceeded to the consulate.

    Here’s my question: Was it wise to depend on a Libyan militia that clearly wasn’t up to the job? Could it have made a difference for those under attack at the consulate if Woods had moved out as soon as he was, in one official’s words, “saddled and ready”?

    Second, why didn’t the United States send armed drones or other air assistance to Benghazi immediately? This one is harder to answer. The CIA did dispatch a quick-reaction force that night from Tripoli, with about eight people, but it had trouble at first reaching the compound. One of its members, Glen Doherty, died along with Woods when a mortar hit the roof of the annex about 4 a.m.

    What more could have been done? A Joint Special Operations Command team was moved that night to Sigonella air base in Sicily, for quick deployment to Benghazi or any of the other U.S. facilities in danger that night across North Africa. Armed drones could also have been sent. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta summarized last Thursday the administration’s decision to opt for caution: “You don’t deploy forces into harm’s way without knowing what’s going on.”

    Looking back, it may indeed have been wise not to bomb targets in Libya that night. Given the uproar in the Arab world, this might have been the equivalent of pouring gasoline on a burning fire. But the anguish of Woods’s father is understandable: His son’s life might have been saved by a more aggressive response. The Obama administration needs to level with the country about why it made its decisions.

    A final, obvious point: The “fog of battle” that night was dense not just in Benghazi but in Cairo, Tunis and elsewhere. U.S. officials needed better intelligence. That’s the toughest problem to address, but the most important.
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  10. #90
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    Its not Hannity that broke the story.....the story was broken by Fox Pentagon correspondent Jennifer Griffin and Catherine Herridge ...Both Brett Baier and others on Fox asked Griffin on air how credible her sources are, and she replied "impeccable"
    At first blush I thought most of the responses here on this POTUS thread were a bit rash and not terribly impartial and objective.
    I based this on the following
    A 4 Star General being interviewed by a Fox reporter said that there was nothing that could have been done to prevent the attack and that to politicize it as Fox is doing was irresponsible and unfair
    The White House has denied the Fox report
    The NSC has denied the Fox report
    The CIA has denied the Fox report
    The Pentagon has denied the Fox report
    and so on


    Then I discover this bombshell. According to Bon, while watching FOX, the FOX correspondent who broke the FOX story that has been reported on FOX while being interviewed on FOX by FOX reporter Brett Baier on FOX and other reporters on FOX stated on FOX while on air on FOX as to how credible her UNNAMED sources that the FOX report was based on claimed while on FOX that her UNNAMED sources that FOX based their story on and has reported on FOX were "impeccable".

    Clearly FOX has uncovered the fox {FOX?} in the henhouse.

    Its time to sharpen up the guillotine and let the heads roll

    People like Franco who advocated not jumping to conclusions and waiting until an investigation could determine the facts have their head in the sand. He probably isn't aware that the reporter breaking this story has stated that her sources are impeccable.
    In his defense he probably thought this would be the normal situation where when the reporter who breaks the story is questioned on the reliability of their UNNAMED sources admits that the UNNAMED he's she's & or its are lying scumbags who have numerous perjury convictions on their UNNAMED record.

    I also have to agree that there must be stalling on this investigation for political gain. Even though the original 9-11 investigation dealt with an attack that occurred on our homeland resulting in a nation of outraged citizens and investigative agencies and authorities that yearned to cooperate and offer up anything they could to find the facts took almost 3 yrs to complete; you all have convinced me that this investigation in an unfriendly land 1000's of miles away with many elements very hostile to us would have been wrapped up by now, were it not being delayed for political gain as many of you have so wisely pointed out

    On the subject of the original 9-11 investigation; it determined that intel was ignored that if acted upon could have prevented that disaster. It was also proven that we were mislead on WMD's amongst other things on the way to getting involved in two wars with adversaries that had nothing to do with the 9-11 attacks. Those mistakes by that administration resulted in the loss of American lives on a magnitude of 1000's times greater than this attack on our embassy, not to mention the cost in $'s and other factors.

    You guys and FOX have gotten me worked up enough with outrage at this latest 9-11 attack that I'm ready to join your lynch mob. This is way to important to be a partisan issue. As your new non partisan ally and fellow American Patriot Am I wrong to be outraged 1000s times more over the mistakes of that administration?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •