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Tick borne diseases and spot-on preventatives / long

7K views 27 replies 15 participants last post by  kona's mom 
#1 ·
I probably should have posted this a long time ago. Apologies.
My boy has tested mild positive for lyme once, mild positive for ehrliciosis once, and high positive for lyme once (requiring treatment).
All this while he was on Vectra-3D, faithfully and carefully applied. I've applied spot-ons to hundreds of dogs here at the kennel, so it's not like I don't know what I'm doing. Have never forgotten one of his doses. I don't get him wet for 48 hours before or after a dose.
So I called the folks at Vectra-3D and told them I was not a very happy customer. Immediately they questioned me about his swimming and bathing habits. I told them that he swims and/or gets a bath about 2-3 times per week.
WELL
They said that the eficacy of ALL of the spot-ons declines to less than 80 percent by 3 weeks with that level of water exposure. I pointed out that their literature says that it's still effective after swimming or bathing, and was told that the assumption is that the dog baths/swims a couple of times a month, not a couple of times per week. I was told to talk to my vet about "alternative treatment schedules" because they are not allowed to recommend anything that would be considered "off-label" but that "vets are aware that a different treatment schedule is necessary for dogs with high water exposure".
So I talked to my vet. Yep. If your dog has that much water exposure, you need to appy the spot-on treatments every 3 weeks, not once per month. At the end of 3 weeks, only 4 out of 5 ticks are being killed, to put it in different terms.
I called and confirmed this with both Frontline Plus and Advantage. It's true for all of them.
SO....you may think your dog is protected.....but he may not be.
We have gone to an every 3 week dose during tick season here, and in his most recent blood panel he tested negative for all the TBS (we send out a full panel, not an in-office read panel) for the first time in a long time.
BTW, the folks from Vectra gave me 9 free doses because he contracted the TBDs while on Vectra.
 
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#3 ·
I've applied FL every 3 weeks during tick season for quite a while now. My vet has told people that for probably the last 7 years at least, that I know of, and it's been posted on here before as well. Some boxes of FL that I must have gotten online and were from outside the US a couple years ago even had the directions to apply every three weeks under certain circumstances. Not sure why the manufacturers here can't give the same info right on the box but having used FL for 10+ years now, and having tried other products, FL works the best for me for ticks, applied at 3 week intervals. I don't believe any topical is 100% prevention however, so I don't expect my dogs are never going to get a TBD, living where we do, regardless of what I put on them, and use doxy prophylactically.
 
#4 ·
I was pretty annoyed at the fact that their literature says that swimming and bathing are okay, and told them so. They really need to change that statement to reflect the fact that "nominal" swimming and bathing don't change the effectiveness.
 
#5 ·
Good thread, Barb. The product people need to know that...there are some dogs that hardly ever touch water and probably seldom bathed either. Then there is kind of a middle ground..maybe just bathing or some swimming here and there...bathing and swimming as you say, maybe 2-3 times a week.

However, they need to also consider working retrievers (or any breed) that do a lot of training, trialing...or hunting (whether in wet conditions upland, or on the ocean etc) that really are not out of water for 48 hrs before and after application.and are in water nearly daily and probably bathedas well due to the water they are inand advise differently if needed.

They are not on the same page as the dog's needs...when it comes to different needs of dogs..and the application of the product. Wish they would look at that carefully. Hope Vectra is after your contact with them..that it might be a head's up for them?

That would be a good thing.

Judy
 
#6 ·
Bayer is coming out with a new collar that will be a better alternative to the topical treatments, I am not sure if it is out now or just when it will hit the shelf. At the 2012 Fall Grand they talked a lot about ticks, infact it was just about the grossest thing I heard in a long time..... right before dinner too ;)

Anyway the out come of this was this new collar that is very effective. I will probably be looking into it for the girls.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Thanks Margo, if you hear any more about it please let us know!!
ETA--I did a google search, and apparently it is available in Europe and Australia, under the name Seresto.
http://www.seresto.com/en/splash.php
 
#8 ·
The active ingredients in Seresto are imidacloprid and flumethrin, very similar to Advantix (flumethrin rather than permethrin) in a different delivery system. Currently available is Preventic collar which has Amitraz as it's active ingredient, they last about 3 months and are very effective.
 
#11 ·
I have found out the Bayer Advanix collar will be out around the first of the year. I had to ask the folks that went to the handlers meeting at the Grand to see if they remembered when it would be out, still can't find out the name.
 
#12 ·
If this has been discussed, I apologize.

Would our dogs have better protection if we applied half the monthly amount and did it every 15 days? I find that when I apply a full month's worth of Frontline Plus, it runs down their sides and appears to be more than what can be absorbed.

We used a trainer (in the past) who applied Frontline monthly and used a flea/tick collar. When he trained, he removed the flea/tick collar. The flea/tick collar went back on the dog when it was done training. Double whammy for fleas/ticks. Overkill? I wonder if there is too much chemical on the dogs--nothing scientific, just a thought.
 
#16 ·
Yes what about the chemicals on the dog???

I have been using Hartz Ultra Guard which has Tetrachlorvinphos and Methoprene. This stuff you buy in the pet store. So far it has been good. I reapply after in water. Does anybody use this or is it any good?

I don't think we have the ticks that you are talking about. In certain areas there are pockets and I suspect increasing. Usually I try to avoid those places.
 
#13 ·
Hey Barb,

Funny you bring this up. I used frontline for years, switched to Advantix about two years ago.

Haven't seen ticks on the dogs. Coal was to right this fall....blood work was great. He's 9. Full tick panel came back positive for RMSF. He's been on Doxy for a while and is quite improved. Another panel in 4 months. Looks like I need the vet to call on the schedule and/or reevaluate my hole regime. My dogs are in water all the time too.

On another thread, related, what are you guys doing for breeding bitches? I'm worried about Ticks. Revolution is safe for breeding, pregnant, lactating and puppies...but it doesn't get ticks....

Sue Puff
 
#14 · (Edited)
Hey Barb,

Funny you bring this up. I used frontline for years, switched to Advantix about two years ago.

Haven't seen ticks on the dogs. Coal was to right this fall....blood work was great. He's 9. Full tick panel came back positive for RMSF. He's been on Doxy for a while and is quite improved. Another panel in 4 months. Looks like I need the vet to call on the schedule and/or reevaluate my hole regime. My dogs are in water all the time too.

On another thread, related, what are you guys doing for breeding bitches? I'm worried about Ticks. Revolution is safe for breeding, pregnant, lactating and puppies...but it doesn't get ticks....

Sue Puff
Frontline has a new product out with the combined product amitraz for ticks... It's called Certifect and can be used on breeding, pregnant and nursing dogs and pups 8 weeks of age and older (5 lb minimum)
http://www.certifect.com/Pages/whatIsCertifect.aspx
 
#17 ·
Ed,

What do you then recommend to your clients that have working dogs and intact bitches that are/will being bred? There is so much out there it is overwhelming. I used to use Ivomec and Panucur, when to Interceptor, now I'm back to Heartguard and Panacur with Advantix II and a dog with RMSF. Can the collars be worm in the water?

Sue Puff
 
#18 ·
They need not be taken off but getting wet might diminish efficacy so I slip them over their head when I put Mr. Tritronics on and hang them on the crate handle until training is done for the day.

We expect to get Sentinel back soon, not sure about Interceptor. Since the active ingredient milbemycin is now off patent there is less economic insentive for Novartis to get it back in production until Sentinel supplies are adequate. The addition of Program (lufenuron) to milbemycin (Sentinel) makes it a dependable safe product for heartworm prevention and control of hookworms, roundworms, whipworms, and fleas. I believe that Preventic collars provide the safest and most effective method to control ticks.

The new Merial product may ultimately prove to be the best product around but I have a policy learned from years of experience to be neither the first nor the last to use new products hence my cautionary advice regarding a new product containing a highly effective parasiticide but one with potential side effects in a new delivery system.
 
#20 ·
What do people feel is the best panel to run? NC State is running a new panel for 12 TBD. Thinking of maybe doing this one. My vet wants almost 300 bucks to test for the common 4!

http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vhc/csds/ticklab.html
 
#21 ·
We send out to MSU. It's about $90 plus whatever the vet charges for collection and shipping. From their website:

"...This panel consists of antibody titers for the following organisms: Borrelia burgdorferi (Lyme), Babesia canis and gibsoni, Ehrlichia canis, Anaplasma phagocytophilum, and Rickettsia rickettsii (Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever)...."

That pretty much covers this area.
 
#23 ·
I use the Preventic collars and nothing else on the dogs. Is there a product that is compatatble with the Preventic collars for fles etc.?
 
#25 ·
If you need a good consult, give the NC State vet school a call. I don't have his name right off the top of my head, but when we got the RMSF DX I called down there as my vet was on vacation. I had a long conversation with the main TBD vet down there and it was awesome. Very informative and a little scarey when you see how much of a problem TBD are becoming.

Sue Puff
 
#26 ·
I find it interesting that products like Bayer Advantage Multi and Revolution no longer are marketed as being able to control ticks. My vet said the FDA has cracked down on efficacy standards for marketing and that those products fell below the efficacy percentage.
 
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