Linebreeding on FC/AFC Rebel With A Cause?

[Billie]

So i"ve had this come up a couple of times very recently among people in chatting about possible breedings with their dogs.
Does anyone have any insight on this? Good/ Bad/ Ugly? ( Bad and ugly -please PM...)
Thanks-

[Tim West]

He was a hell of a dog that has thrown multiple FC's and AFC's. In his prime he won six or seven Opens and Ams in one year. A yellow from all black parents and a great pedigree. I had a bitch out of Rebel that I sold and wished I hadn't. He was retired early due to a shoulder injury at six years old if I recall.

[Lynn Hanigan]

I'm told Rebel was a very difficult dog to train early on. I have trained pups from eight of his litters and I believe I was told correctly.
Line breeding on Rebel would very likely be a mistake but out crossing produces excellent pups as long as you don't cross with Watermarks The Boss or Cosmo lines.

[Billie]

but out crossing produces excellent pups as long as you don't cross with Watermarks The Boss or Cosmo lines.

Why is that?

[awolfe]

Without pulling every litter Rebel ever sired, I'm not sure there was ever one produced that was truly "linebreeding."

There were two litters that both went back to Hiwood Piper Pacer's Pic top and bottom two generations back, including one outstanding litter resulting in FC AFC Fat City Pacer, HRCH MHR Zeke MH & HRCH MHR Total Recall MH. That obviously was highly successful, but really still not linebred Rebel specifically.

There were quite a few litters with Abe, Lean Mac, Chavez, Chena River No Surprise on the dam's side.

We have two offspring out of different daughters of FC AFC Yellowstone's TNT Explosion. Couldn't be more pleased with them. Here's a video of one of the offspring from our male Rebel at just 20 weeks old. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q6oZVgNvyo Pup's pedigree is Rebel/Nitro crossed on Hilltop's Hayseed/Lean Mac/Jazztime.

I'd have to ask why the choice would be made to linebreed before I'd do it. The most obvious reason that jumps out at me is simply because there isn't any Mac in the pedigree and some people seek that to be able to have an outcross down the line. Rebel has been great to us, but I doubt I'd choose to linebreed that or much of other pedigrees either for that matter.

[Lynn Hanigan]

Because thats the way god made em

[frontier]

I'm told Rebel was a very difficult dog to train early on. I have trained pups from eight of his litters and I believe I was told correctly.
Line breeding on Rebel would very likely be a mistake but out crossing produces excellent pups as long as you don't cross with Watermarks The Boss or Cosmo lines.

This is absolutely inaccurate statement about Rebel's early training, and too bad Steve Stidham who did Rebel's early training thru his first open placement is no longer living to offer a rebuttal to this statement. This is why I dislike threads of this type.... Why not go to the source... Dr. Sullivent, Ernie's owner, likes to talk about Rebel and will answer questions accurately rather than regurgitating rumor... or call Bill Eckett who continued Rebel's All-age training

Also, the bitch bred to the FC-AFC has a major influence on the pups as well and the knowledge and the skills of the trainer....

[awolfe]

Over the years, there have been numerous threads on RTF about Rebel himself and as a sire. Well worth a search and read.

[Hunt'EmUp]

Would this be considered a Line-Breeding?

http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=51911

Grandmother and Grandfather siblings out of Rebel, (cousin/cousin) produced 3 MH's @ 2 yrs. different owners, Qualified for MNH, a couple of QAA jams, and NARHA-HRC upper titled dogs. Dogs are 3 yrs. now. I've watched these dogs since they were pups, excellent markers, fast, intelligent, and will run for anyone. As would their grandparents, and parents. It's A breeding I wish I'd have bought into. I guess it all depends on what you mix them with. But I've always liked the Rebel lines, they have plenty go and style (great water entry). Calm and quite on the line; Still got to be careful, they don't creep, but every once in awhile they GO, usually with an "I'm sorry" glance up before they're gone . (Dang Rooster Pheasants)

I might be a tad careful on breeding in high rollers, Cosmo, Chopper. etc. All my experience with Rebel lines produced plenty (more than enough) drive and style (they are little firecrackers), but they were balanced with calmness, and tractably (PDQ, NITRO, etc.) on the other side. Doubling up on high-drive may not be the way to go.

[gmhr1]

I have never heard that Rebel was hard to train in his early years. My Rebel son was the easiest to train, smartest dog we have ever had. He has been bred to over 35 females and the one thing I hear over and over again is how easy to train and how smart the pups are. After talking with Ernie we decided my Bear was alot like Rebel. Bear is laid back , he sleeps in his crate at a trial, but when he goes to the line he's all business. He runs as hard on a blind as he does for a mark.