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Thread: Hunt test distance change for master

  1. #111
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    Amen to that, Mike. What will the weekend trainers do......go to another venue.
    Tom Dorroh

  2. #112
    Senior Member twall's Avatar
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    Adequate grounds can be a big problem. I think a bigger problem is judges who don't hunt.

    It has been a while since I've run a test, even longer since I have been on a hunt test committe. The tests I remember as being the most enjoyable did not have long marks or blinds. Longer marks and blinds were usually used to incorporate some concept or feature a judge wanted to use.

    In the end, it is up to the clubs and committees to chose judges, grounds and dates. Committees should have at least one person who is not afraid the let judges know when inappropriate tests are being set up.

    Tom
    Tom Wall

  3. #113
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    I feel like it is a move to push out the small amateur. Someone like me with one or two dogs, not a lot of money, not a lot of access to technical water and large areas, no machine to run out marks. The move is to limit the number of dogs that can pass and it is done by getting rid of the small guys. Field trials are a rich man' game. This moves Hunt tests in that direction.

    The change was made with little effort to consult with the clubs on the ground.

    Sorry to be dismal but not only the change but the handling of it make it seem like a repeat of the changes that happened with Field trials even though there is already a the field trail venue for people who want it that way.

    Marion Amidon
    Its the amatuer who runs the show. Why would an amatuer push out an amatuer? The only reason I can think of is" big fish in little pond syndrome".

    but,,, I think its just how things evolve over time. Hunt tests never really resembled hunting anyway. People just can't leave well enough alone. Its the nature of the beast.

    Pete
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  4. #114
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    Good post.

    I have yet to run my first test, but even I have trained enough to know that you can either use factors/bird placement or distance to create a test. Some grounds don't have many factors or offer good bird placement, so the only thing left is distance.

    Put another way, I heard a comment from a fellow who judges some hunt tests on this very issue. Mostly to the effect that this change would eliminate the need, on some grounds, to set up overwhelmingly technical stuff to avoid just throwing an around the horn triple. So there's at least one person who saw the new distance allowance as potentially taking some of the technical stuff out of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by fishduck View Post
    As I posted earlier, bring on the distance. An issue I see is the constant use of training set ups used as tests. Teaching and proofing set ups used by pros are working their way into the testing framework. Access to technical water is almost a prerequisite to obtaining a MH. If adding distance will mitigate the technical aspect of the game then I am all for it.

    The same complaints that spawned the hunt test movement are now directed at the upper level tests. Fewer and fewer true owner/trainer/handlers are around. This was not meant to be a spectator sport.

    I very much appreciate every judge that gives up their weekend to sit in a chair with little reward except watching good dog work. Without judges that give of their time, these games cannot continue. Have we evolved to the point that a dedicated hunter training a good dog on lakes and round stock ponds is relegated to owning a JH?

  5. #115
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    Evan said: "What made distance an issue was placing a limit on it to start with." But distance is raised as an issue at several points in the regulations. There are multiple references to "true hunting situations" and an implicit reference to distance on page 33: "All birds should be within gun range so the Judges will be able to see and evaluate the dog under normal hunting conditions." I expect that the reference to a "normal" 100 yard limit was in support of the many references to "natural" and "true" hunting conditions and the reference to "gun range."
    Yes an occaisional bird will sail longer distances. My pup executed a 1/4+ mile retrieve when the wounded bird got caught in the river current and floated quickly downstream. But that it happened on a hunt does not necessarily make for a good and reasonable test scenario.
    I agree with those who call for engagement by the HT committee on test setups. Tests that are set up on an east-west axis, or have blinds with dogs out of sight for a considerable distance or otherwise go against the rules and spirit of the regs should be stopped by the HT committee, before the test dog runs.

    Having said all that a 150 yard blind does not bother me. But bird thrown against a dark tree line, 150yds away from a well hidden blind will not allow the dog to see the mark nor allow the judge to evaluate the dog's marking ability.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    Just wish there was a better method of getting judges on the same page without having it be a requirement to have them be "Buddies" and see "Eye to Eye" on their differences to get a test set up and judged efficiently to get the day completed in a manner which is fair and follows the "standards".
    I don't know if your wish will ever come true.

    I don't have to be "buddies" with my co judge, but hopefully, we will look at things the same way and have the same general philosophy on the "standards". It's about so much more than just setting up a test and judging it.
    Tom Dorroh

  7. #117
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    The live flier or memory bird in sundays finished test seemed to be further than 100 yards, it might have seemed further due to the fact that I was laying in a layout blind. Great test and lots of fun!

    This is pertaining to Southern California Prado Basin's HRC test last weekend.
    St. Thomas, the great doctor and theologian, warns about the proper use of animals, lest they appear at the final Judgment against us: and God himself will take vengeance on all who misuse his creatures.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by A team View Post
    The live flier or memory bird in sundays finished test seemed to be further than 100 yards, it might have seemed further due to the fact that I was laying in a layout blind. Great test and lots of fun!

    This is pertaining to Southern California Prado Basin's HRC test last weekend.

    I thought they only handed out buckets to sit on at HRC tests?

  9. #119
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    The areas that I hunt will usually have the birds fall within 100 yards. If it is longer than that, the dog can track the gliding bird all the way to the ground before being sent or be sent while it is gliding down to minimize the distance (not permissable under HT rules I believe).

    However, someone who normally hunts ponds may not own a layout blind and be invited to a field hunt a few times a year. This handler may have to hide in a tree line and do pass shooting while the people in the layouts are shooting decoying birds. Having the dog with you in the tree line allows them to mark every bird shot, but from a distance. If there is a bird shot from the layouts that glides 100 yards and you are in a tree line 100 yards away from the area of the shot, your dog now has a 200 yard mark. Having a dog that can handle this is truly a MH level dog...especially if there are some terrain/cover changes involved.

    Any birds that land within 20-30 yards of the layouts can be picked up by the gunners and the dog has to honor...only getting to retrieve the longer birds.

    As much as I believe in the shorter, well placed marks, there is a need to be able to mark and retrieve longer birds while on a real hunt. I just hope that distance is used properly in test setups.

  10. #120
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    When I filled my truck up last week it said my range was 450 miles. Just because I could drive that far common sense tells me to fill up earlier.

    There might be a situation where the increased distance would help me put on a better test. Hopefully with good grounds this will be a rare instance.

    What I think will really happen is that the poor judges will use it to hang themselves.

    Scared? No. Does it change the game? Yes.

    I'm sure this is all about the MN. Not because it helps create a more realistic hunting scenario.
    Last edited by Jason Brion; 11-08-2012 at 09:15 PM.

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