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Thread: GM, Chrysler tell Romney he's wrong about Chinese jobs claim

  1. #51
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how the IBEW business managers of the local unions where power is off are going to handle this disaster, but I know how my dad would have handled it, and that is those friendly to the union and the political leadership they need would have had power first. It is going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

  2. #52
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post

    I am happy your friends in the auto industry have done so well.

    Many of mine have lost everything.
    As they did work for Delphi, were in professional positions.
    The plant is gone, their jobs are gone, their pensions are all but gone.

    But that's OK because DA UNION and your freinds are happy.

    No it is not OK
    . It is never OK when someone loses everything through no fault of their own. And we all know folks who have and it is tragic.

    This situation started long ago and it really doesn't matter who was in office at that time. The question is not, "did the stimulus approach save everyone?". Of course not! But the question is, "did it save many and would the situation have been disastrous for a lot more had we not taken that approach?".

    I think it was absolutely the right move. For those people it saved and for the country.

    JS
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

    Real Americans buy American.



    Snowshoe's All American Guy SH, UDX, WCX ... CODY ... at the bridge
    CH. Snowshoe's Girl Crazy MH, UD, WCX, SDHF, OS ... PRESLEY
    ...​ at the bridge
    Millpond's Baby Boomer MH*** ... BABE
    Snowshoe's Crazy For Lovin You SH ... NELSON

  3. #53
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post

    No it is not OK
    . It is never OK when someone loses everything through no fault of their own. And we all know folks who have and it is tragic.

    This situation started long ago and it really doesn't matter who was in office at that time. The question is not, "did the stimulus approach save everyone?". Of course not! But the question is, "did it save many and would the situation have been disastrous for a lot more had we not taken that approach?".

    I think it was absolutely the right move. For those people it saved and for the country.

    JS
    Fair enough.
    That's your opinion and legit.

    I just question what criteria was used to decide who got made financially whole and who didn't.
    I beleive it was a political decision based on the voting block.
    Last edited by road kill; 11-01-2012 at 01:45 PM.
    Stan b & Elvis

  4. #54
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    Should have paid their dues! These non-union guys want all the benefit without the sacrific. My dad a business manager of the IBEW and an International Representative in his later days with the union had a name for those types.
    If you are referring to "scab", I gotta disagree. Those engineers, accountants, office workers, etc. who work without a contract are not scabs. They are working without a collective representative or a binding contract by choice. While the union would likely consider representing them if approached, they do not disagree with their right to choose.

    A "scab" is one who is working in the bargaining unit, enjoying the union-earned benefits and, by law, day-to-day representation, but refuse to join and pay the dues. They are freeriders.

    Most everyone on this board agrees with the notion that a freerider in society is despicable ... it's only when you attach the "union" aspect to the issue that it becomes difficult for some.

    JS
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

    Real Americans buy American.



    Snowshoe's All American Guy SH, UDX, WCX ... CODY ... at the bridge
    CH. Snowshoe's Girl Crazy MH, UD, WCX, SDHF, OS ... PRESLEY
    ...​ at the bridge
    Millpond's Baby Boomer MH*** ... BABE
    Snowshoe's Crazy For Lovin You SH ... NELSON

  5. #55
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Fair enough.
    That's your opinion and legit.

    I just question what criteria was used to decide who got mad financially whole and who didn't.
    I beleive it was a political decision based on the voting block.
    Are you serious? Given the attitude toward organized labor in this country today, I really doubt it was a decision based on the voting block. C'mon man!

    11% of the workers in this country are union workers. The rest of you hate us.

    Have a nice day. I gotta go door knockin".

    JS
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

    Real Americans buy American.



    Snowshoe's All American Guy SH, UDX, WCX ... CODY ... at the bridge
    CH. Snowshoe's Girl Crazy MH, UD, WCX, SDHF, OS ... PRESLEY
    ...​ at the bridge
    Millpond's Baby Boomer MH*** ... BABE
    Snowshoe's Crazy For Lovin You SH ... NELSON

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    11% of the workers in this country are union workers. JS
    Care to break that out into public & private sector? Of the 11% - xx% are public sector employees - xx% are private sector employees -
    __________________________

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  7. #57
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    If you are referring to "scab", I gotta disagree. Those engineers, accountants, office workers, etc. who work without a contract are not scabs. They are working without a collective representative or a binding contract by choice. While the union would likely consider representing them if approached, they do not disagree with their right to choose.

    A "scab" is one who is working in the bargaining unit, enjoying the union-earned benefits and, by law, day-to-day representation, but refuse to join and pay the dues. They are freeriders.

    Most everyone on this board agrees with the notion that a freerider in society is despicable ... it's only when you attach the "union" aspect to the issue that it becomes difficult for some.

    JS
    No I was talking about the one that complains about paying his dues and then runs a takes a non-union job to avoid paying dues not because the hall can't put him to work and then we he can't get it on his own he is back at the hall.

  8. #58
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    Care to break that out into public & private sector? Of the 11% - xx% are public sector employees - xx% are private sector employees -
    I would estimate that the private sector number is now somewhere between 5 & 10 ... probably closer to 5%.

    Last I read the public sector was around 40%. Higher percentage but smaller number.

    JS
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

    Real Americans buy American.



    Snowshoe's All American Guy SH, UDX, WCX ... CODY ... at the bridge
    CH. Snowshoe's Girl Crazy MH, UD, WCX, SDHF, OS ... PRESLEY
    ...​ at the bridge
    Millpond's Baby Boomer MH*** ... BABE
    Snowshoe's Crazy For Lovin You SH ... NELSON

  9. #59
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    No I was talking about the one that complains about paying his dues and then runs a takes a non-union job to avoid paying dues not because the hall can't put him to work and then we he can't get it on his own he is back at the hall.
    OK, well you're talking about trade unions which operate in a different manner than industrial unions due to the way the work/employers are distributed.

    The topic here is the auto industry (industrial).

    JS
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

    Real Americans buy American.



    Snowshoe's All American Guy SH, UDX, WCX ... CODY ... at the bridge
    CH. Snowshoe's Girl Crazy MH, UD, WCX, SDHF, OS ... PRESLEY
    ...​ at the bridge
    Millpond's Baby Boomer MH*** ... BABE
    Snowshoe's Crazy For Lovin You SH ... NELSON

  10. #60
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    Are you serious? Given the attitude toward organized labor in this country today, I really doubt it was a decision based on the voting block. C'mon man!

    11% of the workers in this country are union workers. The rest of you hate us.

    Have a nice day. I gotta go door knockin".

    JS
    The perception is that labor unions contribute and vote heavily in favor of the Democrats.
    Hence a voting block.

    If you have information to the contrary, that would be interesting to see.
    Stan b & Elvis

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