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Thread: Handle at a Hunt test

  1. #31
    Senior Member Jon Hass's Avatar
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    IMO, outside of freak things happening, such as what was talked about previously, if my personal dog has to handle on Jr single I don't want the ribbon. I wont even to attempt to handle to another mark I'll rope the dog and donate. Now if you desperately want that ribbon. Get in there and fight and let the judges make the decision. IMO if you have to handle to more than one mark in Senior you just did junior work and didn't make the cut for senior.
    Now there are extenuating circumstances but if every other dog is killing the test and you are handling you may need to spend more time throwing marks and less time running tests. In no way am I pointing fingers at anyone in this thread. Just giving you what is going through my head when I am on the line watching my dogs run. Everyone is different. I don't like getting ribbons for what I think is sloppy work out of a dog I know is better than that.
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  2. #32
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    Nice post Jon.
    "Force fetch isn't about retrieving as much as it is conditioning a dog to handle pressure, in a very controlled environment. It's about putting a dog in the position of having to figure out how to turn off pressure by finding the correct response. This translates into numerous areas in training." Sharon Potter.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by stonybrook View Post
    Agreed. But I doubt you can show me 5 judges that will pass a Junior dog that handles on half of the birds. If so, I will be very surprised.
    Somethings were said about the change that amounted to handlers would expect to be able to handle on 2 birds. The reality is that now judges don't have to allow a Junior dog to handle at all. That may be entirely appropriate in a test made up of 4 singles marks.
    Eric

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  4. #34
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    I too am of the opinion that at the test or trial one should let the dogs dog, the judges judge and the handlers handle .........
    Do what it takes to get the bird and let the judges sort it out.

    john
    Last edited by john fallon; 11-06-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Duckquilizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    Somethings were said about the change that amounted to handlers would expect to be able to handle on 2 birds. The reality is that now judges don't have to allow a Junior dog to handle at all. That may be entirely appropriate in a test made up of 4 singles marks.
    I'm sure that was the point...to allow the judges more "room to judge" and not trap them with a handle on what should have been a simple mark.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    That may be entirely appropriate in a test made up of 4 singles marks.
    Circumstances happen that become unfair to a dog even when they are just singles, in such cases handlers need to use any tools they have available and let the judges judge.

    I can attest to this as I have handled the same dog twice in a JH test, (my first ever test) both "shot" flyers. On Land the bird went down but came up walking around (which couldn't be seen until the dog was handled back, into the cover and she flushed it out. She did a nice job a catching it, I remember the judges yelling "don't let her drop it, don't let her drop it", It was a mean biting duck, that clamped on to both mine then the the judges hand as we tried to dispatch it). Dog's other land mark was perfect, Then we get to the water series first mark perfect. Then the flyer goes down appears "dead" but starts to paddle away & dives, just as the pup reaches it. Dog had to be handled to find and catch it, as the duck keeps splashing and diving, the Here command wasn't going to happen Two barely crippled flyers, which she was able to retrieve with a little direction which she actually took in our first ever hunt test, I'd say she earned the pass. Still when your only 9-10 mts. old it's no wonder dead thrown birds, never again held the same appeal
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 11-06-2012 at 11:58 AM.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Hass View Post
    IMO, outside of freak things happening, such as what was talked about previously, if my personal dog has to handle on Jr single I don't want the ribbon. I wont even to attempt to handle to another mark I'll rope the dog and donate. Now if you desperately want that ribbon. Get in there and fight and let the judges make the decision. IMO if you have to handle to more than one mark in Senior you just did junior work and didn't make the cut for senior.
    Now there are extenuating circumstances but if every other dog is killing the test and you are handling you may need to spend more time throwing marks and less time running tests. In no way am I pointing fingers at anyone in this thread. Just giving you what is going through my head when I am on the line watching my dogs run. Everyone is different. I don't like getting ribbons for what I think is sloppy work out of a dog I know is better than that.
    I respect your thought on the matter and admire your gumption in holding your dog to a higher standard than some judges would. Like you said, everyone is different so I'm not arguing with you. There are times when my dog totally fails a test by lack of effort or just being a jerk, in those cases I'll pick him up in a heartbeat, but there are times where he's just lost and needs help to get that mark, I'll handle in those cases. I'm not necessarily handling in order to get that ribbon, though many times I am, mostly I want to reward a good effort and build on our teamwork.

    John

  8. #38
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Tell me is I am wrong.

    marking is of primary importance.

    If a Handler handels TO the AOF,, the dog clearly didnt mark..
    if the handeler Handels TO the AOF multikipular times,, then the dog didnt mark miltipicular.

    if the Dog goes directly to the AOF and Hunts,,, but for some reason,, what ever it is,, and it is having a hard time comming up with the bird,, and the Handler handels IN the AOF... Didnt the dog MARK?????

    Isnt MARKING of PRIMARY IMPORTANCE???


    handeling TO the AOF====== Dog didnt mark.

    Handeling IN the AOF===== Dog Marked..

    RIGHT????


    The same for all stakes.. all venues,,,,,, RIGHT????


    Gooser
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 11-06-2012 at 12:16 PM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    You can Handel all ya want!!

    Your dog is gonna show the judge weather it can mark or not..

    If you handel,, Then Ya can show how well your handeling skills are... marking is over as soon as you blow the whistle..

    RIGHT???

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Tell me is I am wrong.

    marking is of primary importance.

    If a Handler handels TO the AOF,, the dog clearly didnt mark..
    if the handeler Handels TO the AOF multikipular times,, then the dog didnt mark miltipicular.

    if the Dog goes directly to the AOF and Hunts,,, but for some reason,, what ever it is,, and it is having a hard time comming up with the bird,, and the Handler handels IN the AOF... Didnt the dog MARK?????

    Isnt MARKING of PRIMARY IMPORTANCE???


    handeling TO the AOF====== Dog didnt mark.

    Handeling IN the AOF===== Dog Marked..

    RIGHT????


    The same for all stakes.. all venues,,,,,, RIGHT????


    Gooser
    You are not wrong. However, you are working with numbers, and not common sense. In order to pass, you need an aggregate of 7, with a minimum of 5 in any category. Just because they "did not mark" does not mean that they will get less than 5 in marking category.

    With that explanation, is marking of primary importance in hunt tests, since they are tested, equally, with other categories such as training, perseverance and style?

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