The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 59

Thread: Handle at a Hunt test

  1. #41
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,339

    Default

    Wait!!!!!

    let me get this straight..

    if a dog didnt mark,,by not going to the AOF and establishing a hunt on its own,,, then does that dog not get a ZERO in marking on that mark?
    He didnt mark....

    How can he recieve any number other than zero??

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  2. #42
    Senior Member Duckquilizer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Mid-TN
    Posts
    922

    Default

    Agree'd Gooser.
    Kendall Layne

    HR(2xHRCH) Ashland's Big Black Ruby to Go SH
    Dorie's Lady of the Lake(1K bird club)

    Never play leap frog with a unicorn.

  3. #43
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,339

    Default

    In My Opinion..

    All a Handel does ,, is save you,, by meeting the requirement that the dog has to come back with the bird.


    In Junior,,, most of the dogs I have witnessed,, cant handel,, so it makes the situation even worse..

    The dog didnt mark,,, then the handeler shows his stuff handeling...


    The Judges are already gonna have marked on your sheet weather the dog MARKED that fall or not, by the dogs performance of making the AOF..

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  4. #44
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    920

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Wait!!!!!

    let me get this straight..

    if a dog didnt mark,,by not going to the AOF and establishing a hunt on its own,,, then does that dog not get a ZERO in marking on that mark?
    He didnt mark....

    How can he recieve any number other than zero??

    Gooser
    You will have to call Jerry Mann for that one Gooser. When we were in a judges seminar (AKC), he said that in the exact situation that you mentioned, the dog does not receive a score for that mark. He did not say they receive a zero.

    technicality, semantics, etc. Yes.

    I personally agree with your thoughts, but when you are working with a numerical scale, it is left open for a very large range of what people see. Their AOF may be a lot larger than your AOF. They may feel that the dog started to hunt in the area of fall, but just did not dig back far enough, or went a little too far, and kept digging back, etc. It is not a pass of fail situation, when dealing with a scale of 0-10. It is just that. A scale of 0-10.

    Everyone has their own opinion of what the area of fall is. That allows for you to score a 0, and your co judge to score anywhere from 0-10, which in the end, after all marks are thrown, can still get them the wonderful little ribbon.

  5. #45
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,339

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman1001 View Post
    You will have to call Jerry Mann for that one Gooser. When we were in a judges seminar (AKC), he said that in the exact situation that you mentioned, the dog does not receive a score for that mark. He did not say they receive a zero.

    technicality, semantics, etc. Yes.

    I personally agree with your thoughts, but when you are working with a numerical scale, it is left open for a very large range of what people see. Their AOF may be a lot larger than your AOF. They may feel that the dog started to hunt in the area of fall, but just did not dig back far enough, or went a little too far, and kept digging back, etc. It is not a pass of fail situation, when dealing with a scale of 0-10. It is just that. A scale of 0-10.

    Everyone has their own opinion of what the area of fall is. That allows for you to score a 0, and your co judge to score anywhere from 0-10, which in the end, after all marks are thrown, can still get them the wonderful little ribbon.

    I dont think I have to call Mr Mann!! lets just say I am the Judge that day!!!

    In your example I quoted,, the dog DID INDEED make my AOF.. The Dog MARKED!!!!!!

    Now,,, If the handeler decides to handel to pick up the bird,, then we are going to judge handeling... It better be clean...
    The score I give the dog on its mark,, will depend on a bunch of things I will look at while I watch the dog perservere and hunt..
    But in your example,, the dog did INDEED mark.. He made the AOF..

    if he stays there and hunts for a reasonable amount of time,, but then looks as though he wants to leave,, but the handelr handels,, and the handel is clean,, the dog gets a passing score on that Mark..
    The handler HANDELED IN the AOF.. NOT TO IT!! BIG DIFFERENCE.

    Its all about making the Particular judges AOF without help..

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  6. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    920

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post

    Its all about making the Particular judges AOF without help..

    Gooser
    That was my point. It is up to that particular judge to determine the AOF.

    By implying that a handle immediately indicates the dog did not mark the fall, is incorrect.

    Not all handles are equal.

    Again, I agree with your thoughts.

  7. #47
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,339

    Default

    Quote:
    By implying that a handle immediately indicates the dog did not mark the fall, is incorrect.


    I really dont think I implyed that.
    I said,, If you handel TO the AOF,,, the dog did not mark..

    If you handel IN the AOF,, the dog marked.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  8. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    920

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Quote:
    By implying that a handle immediately indicates the dog did not mark the fall, is incorrect.


    I really dont think I implyed that.
    I said,, If you handel TO the AOF,,, the dog did not mark..

    If you handel IN the AOF,, the dog marked.
    I apologize. wrong choice of words.

    But, whose AOF are you referring to. Your AOF, or someone else's?

  9. #49
    Senior Member fishduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    nowhere Alabama
    Posts
    1,462

    Default

    When I blow my whistle and start handling to a bird, I have announced to the world that my dog didn't mark. If I am handling back to the area then my dog isn't demonstrating perserverence. Tooting on that whistle is a testament. That is how I see it. If the dog is in the area of the fall hunting what kind of DAH is going to handle that dog. If as a judge, dogs are consistantly handing in the area of the fall the question should be why? Are the falls so close that big hunts will cause a switch? Is there a crate of ducks or a bird technician playing on his I phone that pulls dogs away from the fall? If that is the case then judge as fairly as possible. If it is a set up issue learn from it and don't repeat the same mistake the next time you judge.

    Marking is of primary importance. To quote Forrest Gump "that is all I have to say about that".
    Mark Land

  10. #50
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,339

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman1001 View Post
    I apologize. wrong choice of words.

    But, whose AOF are you referring to. Your AOF, or someone else's?

    I think that is a great question..

    My OPINION...

    We should all have a pretty good idea of what the size of an AOF should be for a particular mark..

    That said.. In JUNIOR.... They are all singles.... the dog only navagates the factors presented on that 1 mark. There is no memory brought into the equation. therefore,, MY PERSONAL belief is the AOF is going to be relativly small.... If that Judge sets something up that throws quite a bit of terrain,, or disrtactions (decoys) ect,, I would think the AOF to be a BIT bigger..

    BUT,,, The decision is with the Judge... I personally would not handel a dog in Junior... I would let the dog roll,, hunt the bird,, and t
    let the volunteer Judge.. Judge
    I wont show my weakness,, and handel a Junior dog..

    JMHDAO.

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •