Unions

[Marvin S]

This may be a hijack and deserving of a seperate thread http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbc...0202/121109582

http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/20...t1-09Nov12.htm

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbc...NEWS/121109577

Danny

Good for your department . Later on there will be stories from the other side that do not cast a good reflection on those who are the 1st responders. I have several & they are not to cast any reflection on those who serve honorably, though at times that is hard to do.

[JS]

From another thread, Marvin posted:

I look forward to the posting - hopefully you will be able to do some correlation regarding my original guesstimate of union membership by state. Remember, withholding information available is a form of lying, & I just believe you are above that . It will make a very good baseline for my next foray onto the union thread .

That's what my granddad taught me. More than once!

Not to hurt any feelings but, I find it interesting when someone who lives in a RTW state, with little or no understanding of the situation a uneven playing field brings, espouses anything on the subject. Where we live the unions have inserted themselves into the fabric of government to the point of diminishing returns? I will post more on that subject & my opinion on what that does after your posting on the union thread .

I do live in a right-to-work state, but I question the relevance of that regarding level playing fields or union impact on the general citizenry.

When a group of workers decide they want to be represented by a union and bargain collectively, they will approach an organizer of their choice, have informational Q&A meetings, go back and talk to fellow workers and try to build a critical mass. Most of this is done secretly in private homes, as they are jeopardizing their jobs and their livelihood if labeled a "troublemaker". During all this time, the company has the ability to bring the employees together openly, on company time for "coffee & donuts" and explain all the reasons that joining a union would be "bad". I have even heard that threats may be made. (So far, RTW has not come into play.)

If/when the workers believe there is a majority who want to be represented, they will petition for an election. IF the vote passes, and the chosen union is designated the sole bargaining agent for the employees, THEN, it is required, in your state (non RTW) that ALL employees, regardless of the way they voted, MUST be represented equally by the union processes AND MUST also share in the cost of that representation by paying dues.

RTW does not have much, if any impact on the workers choice or ability to organize. Only that all those represented will pay their share. That will certainly affect the percentage of union members in your state because there will be no freeriders in those shops that are organized, but it gives no advantage to a union or the workers in the process of attaining union representation if they so choose or in the power of the union to represent.

My state is a right-to-work state and I don't remember ever having even half a percent who did not voluntarily join and pay dues. We had a 90 day probationary period in which new employees did not accrue seniority and could be terminated by the company without recourse by the union.

BTW, Iowa is right at the median of the 50 states in percentage of union membership at 13%, not close to Washington (21% ... congratulations ) but I doubt RTW has a significant impact that.

JS

[JS]

Marvin, your response to DSO:

Good for your department . Later on there will be stories from the other side that do not cast a good reflection on those who are the 1st responders. I have several & they are not to cast any reflection on those who serve honorably, though at times that is hard to do.

I appreciate his story and have many, many like that as I'm sure you have many to the contrary, but I would rather make this discussion one on philosophy before we get into swapping anecdotes. That is entertaining but can take more time than either of us have left.

JS

[Marvin S]

I do live in a right-to-work state, but I question the relevance of that regarding level playing fields or union impact on the general citizenry.

When a group of workers decide they want to be represented by a union and bargain collectively, they will approach an organizer of their choice, have informational Q&A meetings, go back and talk to fellow workers and try to build a critical mass. Most of this is done secretly in private homes, as they are jeopardizing their jobs and their livelihood if labeled a "troublemaker". During all this time, the company has the ability to bring the employees together openly, on company time for "coffee & donuts" and explain all the reasons that joining a union would be "bad". I have even heard that threats may be made. (So far, RTW has not come into play.)

If/when the workers believe there is a majority who want to be represented, they will petition for an election. IF the vote passes, and the chosen union is designated the sole bargaining agent for the employees, THEN, it is required, in your state (non RTW) that ALL employees, regardless of the way they voted, MUST be represented equally by the union processes AND MUST also share in the cost of that representation by paying dues.

RTW does not have much, if any impact on the workers choice or ability to organize. Only that all those represented will pay their share. That will certainly affect the percentage of union members in your state because there will be no freeriders in those shops that are organized, but it gives no advantage to a union or the workers in the process of attaining union representation if they so choose or in the power of the union to represent.

My state is a right-to-work state and I don't remember ever having even half a percent who did not voluntarily join and pay dues. We had a 90 day probationary period in which new employees did not accrue seniority and could be terminated by the company without recourse by the union.

I was not aiming at IA - more like TX, SD & MN . I assumed you were a union state based on the IH strike (which everyone but JD lost) & the meat packers around Sioux City.

BTW, Iowa is right at the median of the 50 states in percentage of union membership at 13%, not close to Washington (21% ... congratulations ) but I doubt RTW has a significant impact that. JS

If they were private sector union members that would be an impressive number - but for the most part those private sector unions are heavily involved in government contracting - so if the union can't get what they want at the table they back door it through the legislature. Prevailing Wage - Family Wages -

WA has had a unbroken string of 8 D governors, most for two 4 year terms - the only break was a RINO (Spellman) - The most conservative governor I remember is Rosellini, an old style D. Dan Evans was the most conservative R . The unions put them there & they have publicly stated they expect payback.

The average wage for unionized state employees (there is no other kind) is a large enough percentage that the state would have $10Bil to spend it they met the statewide average for the private sector. & that does not take into account their benefits. If you say the State employees are better educated remember we have Boeing, Microsoft, Amazon, a huge biotech sector all of which are much smarter than the average bear .

That kind of clout translates into 1/2 a % here & a 1/2 a % there & over that many years it amounts to a lot of wasted money. When the cases go to court, most of the judges have been appointed by D's, so the result is like not going. That kind of clout also makes the regulators brave, so businesses are constantly keeping attorney's busy to protect their rights or going without.

Hopefully you get my message - When I ran for the State Legislature in the mid 70's on of the legislators told me WA was the 3rd most unionized state in the USA. I don't believe anything has changed.

I won't go to 1st responders as they have their own unique set of rules - there is a reason that both the King County & Seattle cops are under Federal oversight for brutality - deservedly so . & rest assured I'm not a criminal lover!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PamK]

My neighbor works for Hostess corp office and this isn't looking good. I don't understand why anyone would strike at a company that is in bankruotcy. The company has said they will have to liquidate if the contract isn't signed. So don't sign the contract and lose your job?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hostes...035700490.html

[luvmylabs23139]

My neighbor works for Hostess corp office and this isn't looking good. I don't understand why anyone would strike at a company that is in bankruotcy. The company has said they will have to liquidate if the contract isn't signed. So don't sign the contract and lose your job?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hostes...035700490.html

They are waiting for another Obama bailout!

[Marvin S]

My neighbor works for Hostess corp office and this isn't looking good. I don't understand why anyone would strike at a company that is in bankruotcy. The company has said they will have to liquidate if the contract isn't signed. So don't sign the contract and lose your job?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hostes...035700490.html

Apparently these folks think no job is better than some job - Vulcan Properties has already called nibs on the plant here in Seattle, which is prime RE - that'll be 110 less workers to the 21% that WA unionista's enjoy - & these folks were real private sector union guys - the work will go elsewhere cause everyone needs a Twinkie .

[murral stark]

Mercury marine just announced they are adding 170 jobs at their plants in Fond du Lac, WI. $14 and change to start. I think that is a union facility too.

[Larry Thompson1]

Union wages put a roof over your head and fed you and you spit on them now. I wouldn't want you in my union anyway.

You think you know everything. My father was in the union, but it was my mother that brought home the bacon. My father was either on strike or out drinking with his union buddies. Every week down to the union hall to drink and complain about how they were mistreated by the people who paid them. My mother (non-union) worked all the time to put food on the table and a roof over my head. The sheep just drank.

[Larry Thompson1]

and they call the 47% "takers" As long as it suits your current situation it's ok. but when you have gotten what you needed from something in the past, and now "YOU" don't need it. It's bad.

Didn't need them then or now. The unions are full of people that don't have the guts to go out and earn it on thier own, they need to have the saftey net under them.