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ACL drawer test

16K views 74 replies 15 participants last post by  Jthweatt 
#1 ·
How accurate is this test when the dog is sedated? Can it show a partial or slight tear? I have a dog with mild rear leg lameness that has persisted over a week now with crate rest. He seemed to get better after a couple of days but it flared up again after I let him have more activity in the yard this weekend. X-rays o the hip didn't show anything per the vet. The drawer test showed nothing either. I assumed a few days of crate rest and all would be good if it was a sprain/strain, muscle pull or what not. How long should I try crate rest before we head back to the vet. How long should a more minor leg injury take to heal with rest. For what it's worth it happened inside on slick floors I believe. There was no indication of injury until he had been inside sliding around the den. I'm assuming he could have pulled something or hyper extended his hip given that he can't keep footing worth a darn in my den. Any input?
 
#51 ·
Right Dr Ed I didn't mention weight pulling. But both using backpack with weight indoors on the treadmill and pulling heavy chains outdoor are useful. After a serious rehab my dog looked like Arnold! An important aspect of rehab is to develop balanced mussel mass.
For weight pulling later on outdoors I have a Pull Harness, tie down bungies with caribiner clips. Make sure you setup lengths of bungies and clips so they won't rub on dogs ankles. and a I cut 10 3' lengths of heavy chain each length weighing 5 pounds. Start with 1 length clipped on per side the increase as needed.
I would slap on the harness a few lengths of chain an go for a walk.
 
#53 ·
If Ted used this harness I would say yes go ahead and order one. Looks like you can support dog by holding onto the loop on top and clip a lead onto the D ring.
 
#56 ·
I'm assuming the ligament should be stronger after repair? If not I wouldn't see why you have it done in a knee with no injury. I would be willing to do both at once if dr Milton would go for it. That's assuming the chance of another tear is decreased by doing so. Can someone shed light on why do both other that the decreased cost of two separate operations and less rehab time. How for it benefit the I injured leg?
 
#58 ·
My experience with Field Trial dogs is that if you blow one, you will blow the other.

The repaired joint is stronger - if you rehab properly and the bone heals properly.
The other joint remains the same.
You repair the other joint as preventative medicine. You repair it because: (a) you believe it is a matter of time before it goes; (b) the dog is much less likely to have arthritis later in life if you repair the joint before there is a complete tear (and the associated damage of cartilage); (c) you want to minimize time off from training

But, I would tell you that rather than talk to me or the others on this board, I would find a couple of orthopedic specialists and ask them for their opinions.

I have spoken with a ton, but you would be better served to do the same yourself
 
#59 ·
Thanks that makes sense. If it will be for the better I'm willing to do both now. Just not sure if dr Milton will go for it. Can anyone that has gone that route comment on how you convinced the doc to go through with it?
 
#60 ·
The whole point of the TPLO technique is to replace the function of the ligament. The remaining torn ligament is probably debrided in surgery because it no longer serves any purpose.
One reason doing two at same time is rehab can be easier as dog can't really "favor" on leg over the other or cheat.
If I chose that route I would use a rehab pro personally.
 
#63 ·
Again, anyone poking around in this area should consult with a specialist. But, if I had a dog that I really liked, I would probably do both.

In 2007, Freeridin Vampire Slayer got her FC/AFC (all points earned by me) at four years of age. She was a finalist in the National Am that year. Blew cruciate in summer of 2007. TPLO. I spent fall rehabbing. Came on hard in winter of 2008. Was running great in 2008 pre-National training. During training, started favoring her other leg. I immediately took her to orthopedic surgeon in New Jersey - he diagnosed partial tear. I scratched her from National Am. Did another TPLO.

She was never the same. Retired her in 2010 at seven years of age in her competitive prime with 60 All Age points.

I think if I had been more aggressive with surgery and rehab, she would have retired with Mootsie this year, and like her, would have had 80 or so All Age Points or more.

But, it is alot of work to rehab a dog. I had a promising young dog, who at a year of age, had an on/off limp. I washed him out immediately and found a nice home for him. Because I was not going to invest in the time, emotion, and money of another rehab for an unproven dog.

I have also done cruciate surgery for a dog that was seven at the time of surgery (eventually both joints) and another at less than a year of age (eventually both joints). So I am more knowledgeable than I want to be about cruciates, and am very leary of getting another. And which I why I now research cruciates together with hips, elbows, eyes, and EIC when I get a puppy.
 
#64 ·
#65 · (Edited)
#66 ·
Thanks for the links. Ted do you have someone willing to do both at once when one leg is still fine? I have read numerous threads where people say next time I'll gave both done but can't find any evidence it's been done on this situation. I'm willing to look at going that route if I can build a strong enough case to twist the docs arm.
 
#67 ·
Juice is back in my care now. Surgery went well according to Dr. Milton. He had a complete tear and tore off a small piece of bone as well when it tore. Dr. Milton feels like the surgery went as well as you could ask for and with proper rehab juice should be able to return to normal activity. He was amazed that juice was not favoring the leg--acccording to him the acl was destroyed. We have aired twice so far, with a lead and a sling under his belly. Its not very glamarous, thats for sure. He said juice should begin to bear weight on the let within a week or so but to keep it moderate. Wish me luck with this beast!! Thanks again for all of the helpful advice.
 
#68 ·
Glad to hear surgery went well. With careful rehab he'll be good as new. Pay particular attention to and recognize when aspects of rehab are going well so you can move on to the next step and also recognize when things are not going so well where you might need to back up a step. The chart in the Part II pdf might help.
 
#70 ·
Hang in there...one day at a time, he'll get better and better.
 
#72 ·
Juice feels much better today. He is no longer whimpering unlike yesterday. He is weight bearing on his operated knee already. He hates to take a dump on lead so that's been a chore to this point but overall everything is looking good. I am going to start some range of motion exercises this weekend but dr Milton wants everything kept to a minimum for quite some time. The rehab plan I was given is much more conservative than many I have read. Crate rest and airing is about all he really wants for juice to have for the next few weeks. Looks to be a slow process but I guess it is what it is.
 
#73 ·
There are many surgeons that are ultra conservative in the rehab esp for home rehab as they do not have any control over what happens once the dog leaves their office so to minimize any problems they err on the side of caution.
I sped up the rehab process on my girl and the surgeon was very surprised at her progress but I was careful not to overdo it. I was able to keep her under control at all times.
If your dog is very high drive then you just need to go slower.
 
#74 ·
Thought I would update the thread in case anyone else is dealing with this right now. Juice is just over 6 months post surgery and is doing great. The other leg may blow any day but he is balls to the wall just like before, possibly even worse. He has been training now regularly since about mid march with no restrictions. He did have two flare ups at about 4 and 5 months post op and we never figured out what the deal was. Dr. Milton did xrays of the leg as well as hips, after a couple of days rest they went away. It was never following training or activity, both came after having some time off from training and being back in the concrete kennel. I believe it was concrete related as it only happened then, he would show extreme lameness if he had to walk on gravel then next to nothing when back on grass. I almost feel it may have been a pad issue, but don't know for sure. Anyway, he is doing great and is back to getting ready to run the Q in the fall. I took it very slow with rehab, the first 6 weeks were just crate rest, air on lead and some moderate leash walks on flat mowed ground. We did some underwater treadmill and I feel like that helped a great deal, it eased my mind having a professional put eyes on him a couple times a week. Rehab was a pain and I don't wish it on anyone but its behind us at least for now. If you need the procedure and are in the southeast, it would be hard to recommend anyone than Dr. Milton and his staff.
 
#75 · (Edited)
That's great! I have a 18 month old out of Grady that had a partially torn ccl. Had the tplo done in Memphis at Memphis Veternarian specialist by dr. Maxwell. Everyone told me to go to Birmingham, Memphis was more expensive, but more convenient.

She had surgery in early january. Upon her 6 week checkup she started limping a day before. The plate had broken the bone where the top screw was located. It became infected. Also 2 of the 6 orthepedic screws are backing out. This has allowed the plate to move slightly. Needless to say, about 4 more trips back and fourth the infection is gone. Her leg is healing up good, but is 12 degrees off of being properly aligned....... Now they want to remove this plate, cut the leg again and realign and install another plate. If all goes well we will be lucky to be back training this fall. This has not been a good experience. The doctor is saying her bone failed and that's why it broke and the screws are backing out. The only 2 screws backing out are the same. The other 4 are a different type (thread) and are holding fine???
I hope no one ever has to go through this. I was never told this was a chance I take when having this surgery. And that I'm the first one this has ever happened to out of the thousands of tplos performed.

She has been confined to a small crate the entire time only allowed out to air several times a day. And then on a short leash. Sedated the entire time. About 700.00 in medication do far. No jumping at all.

Did I mention her name is LUCKY??

What's everyone's thoughts on this?

Thanks
 
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