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Thread: Force and Force Levels...

  1. #1
    Senior Member FPA Ammo's Avatar
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    Default Force and Force Levels...

    So this morning I tried something new with how much force I have been using on my pup 11months. To give a little background to help with what I about to say:

    Working on FTP and havent been getting the best response out of my pup after he goes to the pile he has energy to get the first bumper but after he just trots and lolygags around, I had been using only level 2 stimulation on the collar for force as at times he is vocal on 2 and didnt think I should use more as I assumed he understood that level of pressure. But talking to a good friend that trains he said to try and go up a level or 2 and just see what the response it. He basically said the dog knows the command but it stead of nicking several times on a low level just nick him once on a high level even when it comes to OB it could be just irritating instead of correcting.

    So with that said this morning I bumped it the level of stimulation up to 4 on a Tri-Tronic tube remote and have never seen a dog run so hard everytime after getting him once on a 4. We must have run 20+ "BACKS" and not once did he slow down and out of the 20 times I may have nicked him 5 times but he understood that the force wasnt just an irritation but force to get to the pile.

    Whats your thought on this even if he is vocal it made a HUGE and I mean HUGE difference on his response to the pile.
    HPK's A Warriors Call "Titan"
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  2. #2
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    That's dog training! Every dog is different, its your job to crack his code and bring the full potential out of the dog. Vocalizing with pressure isn't the end all of where the collar should be set, it should be set to get the response you are looking for. Sounds like you found his sweet spot!

  3. #3
    Senior Member JoeOverby's Avatar
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    Sounds like he was playing you...
    Joe Overby
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    Senior Member Duckquilizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeOverby View Post
    Sounds like he was playing you...
    Correct and I'll add DO NOT GET TRIGGER HAPPY!!!
    Kendall Layne

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  5. #5
    Senior Member FPA Ammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckquilizer View Post
    Correct and I'll add DO NOT GET TRIGGER HAPPY!!!
    I appreciate that! I honestly think this should allow me to use the trigger less then I was before because the response I got after the first time was impressive.
    HPK's A Warriors Call "Titan"
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  6. #6
    Senior Member FPA Ammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeOverby View Post
    Sounds like he was playing you...
    Yeah I guess so! But now I know and training will/should go much better now that I have found the sweet spot.
    HPK's A Warriors Call "Titan"
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  7. #7
    Senior Member 8mmag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff evans View Post
    That's dog training! Every dog is different, its your job to crack his code and bring the full potential out of the dog. Vocalizing with pressure isn't the end all of where the collar should be set, it should be set to get the response you are looking for. Sounds like you found his sweet spot!
    IMO you did not necessarily find his sweet spot. You simply saw the result of higher levels of force. The sweet spot could be anywhere in between.
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    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    To parrot a famous trainer who gets quoted (sometimes totally accurately, sometimes not),

    "You know you used the right level for a correction when the dog shows the desired behavior response."

    Alec Sparks has one that I really like: It has to do with the wide swings in how much is the right amount of pressure. It has to do with adrenoline, excitement, and levels of distraction.

    Here's the analogy - straight from Alec.

    You wake up in the middle of the night and realize you have to go to the bathroom. You're walking barefoot in the dark down the hall and as you make the turn, you slam your stub your toe on something. It hurts like heck.

    Or, you wake up in the middle of the night. You realize there's a tiger in your bedroom snarling and pouncing on your bed. You burst out of bed and run as fast as you can down the hall in the dark. You stub your toe on the same item as in the first example. You don't even feel it.

    That's Alec's example.

    If you apply this to dog training, the amount of "correction" given to get a dog wandering along aimlessly in the pasture, when he is called "here" may not be all that great. But if that same dog has a nose full of running rabbit and he's hot on that rabbit's trail and gaining ground, your "here" command may need a much higher level of correction that in the first example.

    This is one thing I like about having the "low" "medium" and "High" buttons right there on the transmitter. You have instant ability to go up or down the scale without too much delay.
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  9. #9
    Senior Member RetrieversONLINE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeOverby View Post
    Sounds like he was playing you...
    What do you mean by that?
    Dennis

  10. #10
    Senior Member hughest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson View Post
    To parrot a famous trainer who gets quoted (sometimes totally accurately, sometimes not),

    "You know you used the right level for a correction when the dog shows the desired behavior response."

    Alec Sparks has one that I really like: It has to do with the wide swings in how much is the right amount of pressure. It has to do with adrenoline, excitement, and levels of distraction.

    Here's the analogy - straight from Alec.

    You wake up in the middle of the night and realize you have to go to the bathroom. You're walking barefoot in the dark down the hall and as you make the turn, you slam your stub your toe on something. It hurts like heck.

    Or, you wake up in the middle of the night. You realize there's a tiger in your bedroom snarling and pouncing on your bed. You burst out of bed and run as fast as you can down the hall in the dark. You stub your toe on the same item as in the first example. You don't even feel it.

    That's Alec's example.

    If you apply this to dog training, the amount of "correction" given to get a dog wandering along aimlessly in the pasture, when he is called "here" may not be all that great. But if that same dog has a nose full of running rabbit and he's hot on that rabbit's trail and gaining ground, your "here" command may need a much higher level of correction that in the first example.

    This is one thing I like about having the "low" "medium" and "High" buttons right there on the transmitter. You have instant ability to go up or down the scale without too much delay.
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