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Thread: 2 live birds per entry?

  1. #31
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly Greenwood View Post
    Getting gunners to use correct chokes is probably our biggest problem now. Once we explain to gunners blowing ducks apart and shooting the heads off cost the club money they get it though.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granddaddy View Post
    Nothing in the rules prevents the use of previously frozen birds. Even with 2 birds per dog, there have to be some dead birds to start a test. Rules don't specify how, when or where the dead birds came from. The most common interpretation of the 2 bird rule, relative to AKC events would mean each stake should see 2 flyers (live birds) per event, if your dog is fortunate to finish the event (which in practice rarely happens at most events). The rule has nothing to do with dead birds & where they came from. We all have desires & opinions but clubs must run their events to not only meet the rules but also make sure they can cover incurred expenses within the fees collected. Maybe handlers have an expectation but to say they have "rights" to expect decent birds is to ignore reality. The clubs I know take the steps necessary to provide the best birds possible, both in quality & quantity. But clubs don't raise the birds & sometimes weather & feed costs result in birds that are less than desired. Further, weather & the test set-ups play a significant role in the condition of the available birds over the course of a weekend. Dogs should be trained to p/u birds of all condition (guess someone will complain that crimples are not fair next, notwithstanding the rules) & support clubs to put on the best events they can within the fees they are able to collect.
    It's this type of "circumvention of the intent'' mindset that necessitates a more expansive and comprehensive Rule Book..........

    It is the intent of the writing that the test simulate as close as possible,a day of hunting in the field, the condition of the birds being intrigal to that end therefore, should be as close as possible to those a dog would encounter retrieving a bird while hunting.... end of story.

    john
    Last edited by john fallon; 11-13-2012 at 08:21 PM.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member Pals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRL View Post
    Rotating birds and discarding the bad ones so that you have decent birds on Sunday is a Hun Test Committee issue. Some clubs are better at then others.

    I believe in a thread a year or so ago, a judge posted on here complaining about the HT committe taking all the shot flyers from Saturday and saving them for the upcoming FT trial.

    So the answer to you question is, it depends.

    Most of the events I attended last year (8), the birds were decent on Sunday.

    WRL

    You are correct. That would be me. And I took a beating for standing up for my contestants and the rule book. We are talking about hunt tests, with baby dogs and new handlers in the lower levels--so please don't make crappy birds an issue. They have enough issues just trying to get out of the holding blind!! And there are times when weather and other factors just erode bird condition rapidly, as long as everyone has done everything possible to keep the birds from totally going to pot--well then its an issue that becomes another factor when judging, so judge it fairly.

    I actually agree very much with John!!

  4. #34
    Member Rick Vaughan's Avatar
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    My club has never used frozen birds...wouldn't think of it!
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  5. #35
    Senior Member MikeBoley's Avatar
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    Well even the National started the first series with some previously shot roosters from the set up week. Seems if that is good enough for the best of the best of the Retriever world that a potential Junior Hunter could handle a previously used bird for a setup.
    'I make my practices real hard because if a player is a quitter, I want him to quit in practice, not in a game.' - Bear Bryant / Alabama

  6. #36
    Senior Member Pals's Avatar
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    Seriously Mike? You are comparing FCs to a junior? Dogs trained to amazing levels to dogs barely FF?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBoley View Post
    Well even the National started the first series with some previously shot roosters from the set up week. Seems if that is good enough for the best of the best of the Retriever world that a potential Junior Hunter could handle a previously used bird for a setup.
    That's sad to hear...

    There was a time in the history of Field Trials, at least around here, when at the end of each day, the game steward removed and disposed of all the dead birds used for testing that day, and started the next day off by having the guns shoot some fresh birds to get the next days testing started.......



    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

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  8. #38
    Senior Member Kelly Greenwood's Avatar
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    My first hunt test I ever ran, all the birds where confiscated at 7:55 am on Saturday morning leaving the club with Zero birds to run a double junior, double senior, single master (180 total dog enteries over 2 days). The calls went out and people raided their freezers and we scrounged up every training bird from 3 different clubs and dozens of people. We managed to get enough live pigeons for junior and senior and enough chukar for master almost ( a few people had hen pheasant.) I remember listening as they called AKC to tell them they were using pigeons and AKC saying that wasn't permissible and the club president saying that we would use dolkens and bumpers then and AKC responding that pigeons would be ok and to do what they had to to run the test. The birds were not great but you never saw so many people caring and drying the birds. I remember chipping ducks apart that morning so we could get the test going dogs did well and I am proud to have run that test.
    Last edited by Kelly Greenwood; 11-13-2012 at 08:42 PM.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    That's sad to hear...

    There was a time in the history of Field Trials, at least around here, when at the end of each day, the game steward removed and disposed of all the dead birds used for testing that day, and started the next day off by having the guns shoot some fresh birds to get the next days testing started.......



    john
    it was before my time with retrievers, but I am told that years back up here at Lake Champlain the Pheasants from the land series Saturday were served at the tailgate party that evening.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

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  10. #40
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly Greenwood View Post
    My first hunt test I ever ran, all the birds where confiscated at 7:55 am on Saturday morning leaving the club with Zero birds to run a double junior, double senior, single master (180 total dog enteries over 2 days). The calls went out and people raided their freezers and we scrounged up every training bird from 3 different clubs and dozens of people. We managed to get enough live pigeons for junior and senior and enough chukar for master almost ( a few people had hen pheasant.) I remember listening as they called AKC to tell them they were using pigeons and AKC saying that wasn't permissible and the club president saying that we would use dolkens and bumpers then and AKC responding that pigeons would be ok and to do what they had to to run the test. The birds were not great but you never saw so many people caring and drying the birds. I remember chipping ducks apart that morning so we could get the test going dogs did well and I am proud to have run that test.

    that is a great first test memory. and shows how we do all come together when we need to. do you recal why the ducks got snatched? permit issue?
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

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