The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 85

Thread: 2 live birds per entry?

  1. #51
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    173

    Default

    I shouldnt put words in Mike's mouth but. Fresh shot flyers on a very hot day do not cool and thus tend to stink quickly, (unless you proactively take them out of the field and put them in a fridge / freezer to cool them). Recently thawed birds start out cool so tend to take longer than those hot fresh shot flyers to start to decay.

    Mark

  2. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Boston, GA
    Posts
    2,675

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SamLab1 View Post
    That's really big of you Tom to give up the tailgate. How about joining a club, working a HT and find out how much the club members work so you can sit in the gallery, go to the tailgate and bitch. Then you wouldn't have to worry about rumors, you would know first hand....
    You're right. I'm new to this sport. I need to join some clubs, start gunning some, start judging a little and get to know the game before I complain. One thing I won't do is hide behind a screen name.
    Last edited by Thomas D; 11-14-2012 at 11:18 AM.
    Tom Dorroh

  3. #53
    Senior Member Kelly Greenwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Chino, California
    Posts
    875

    Default

    Sounds like a fun experiment to do to me, Unfortunately it may have to wait 7-8 months for warmer weather to try..I know when it is below freezing then it becomes a mute point. I will need two ducks of same weight and sex and plumage, I will need to kill one and then freeze it after an appropriate time (time from shot then retrieved, then hung then back to camp, then taken home then frozen much like a normal trial duck). Then after say two weeks or more it will have to be thawed as it would for use in a test/trial. then I will need to shoot one at about 9 am and retrieved and rotatated into the dead duck station, and retrieved the same number of times as the thawed duck over a course of the day say 10 times over 1st day, then compare, then hang over night in club trailer, then use both of them again the next day and compare, hang one more night and use a third day and compare at end. (third day is for field trial info). I will need a thermometer to moniter temp of ducks on first day and maybe next morning, expect the temp to be the same for both ducks after that..

    will also need to recruit several people to compare the ducks in a blind study.. for all three days. Will also try and get info on which duck is easier to find/retrieve with several dogs...

    Any other thoughts on how to make it a better comparison?
    Dogs Dog, Handlers Handle, Judges Judge

    HRCH Greenwoods Sealion Tsunami MH QAA

  4. #54
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Pa.
    Posts
    5,317

    Default

    What is the judge to do with the two live birds per dog that are provided by way of "using" them ?.

    Since schakeling them for use in some way or another in the test is prohibited by the rules, the judges choices are limited to using them as Fliers, or dispatching them humanely for use at the dead bird stations.

    It is obvious to me that the two bird rule was instituted so that there would be enough birds available for use, so fresh killed birds could be used in the testing/judging at all stations.


    john
    Last edited by john fallon; 11-14-2012 at 12:17 PM.
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  5. #55
    Senior Member Kelly Greenwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Chino, California
    Posts
    875

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    What is the judge to do with the two live birds per dog that are provided by way of "using" them ?.

    Since schakeling them for use in some way or another in the test is prohibited by the rules, the judges choices are limited to using them as Fliers, or dispatching them humanely for use at the dead bird stations.

    It is obvious to me that the two bird rule was instituted so that there would be enough birds available for use, so fresh killed birds could be used in the testing/judging at all stations.


    john
    Or say stacking crates of live birds and running the dogs past them on a blind....
    Dogs Dog, Handlers Handle, Judges Judge

    HRCH Greenwoods Sealion Tsunami MH QAA

  6. #56
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,919

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WRL View Post
    Actually mike, that might be your PERCEPTION but its inaccurate. Frozen and thawed"flesh" decays and breaks down something like 5 times faster than "cooled" or "freshly killed" mammals. If you don"t believe this, you can take it up withthe Feds. They do research on that type of stuff all the time(some of it for tracking serial killers). They have a "body farm" that they do all sorts of research at when it comes to decay.
    Hmm When I go Deer Hunting we let the Deer hang and semi-freeze overnight before heading home, the Deer remains cool and unspoiled for the duration of the trip usually 2 days. If we were to kill one the day we leave and are unable to let nature cool it we have to stop get bags of dry ice. It's a real pain to transport, as a fresh killed animal releases heat from the bones-organ into the meat, trapped in the body cavity, without chilling we can expect it to be rank by 12 hrs, if it is not opened up and cooled completely. I have had a couple of pretty pungent experiences with mulitple types of game animals to consider this fact. I'll keep a cool frozen-chilled deer-duck-quail-dove etc. in my truck way longer than a fresh kill, I'll be able to eat that chilled-frozen bird a lot later than a fresh kill as well, just personal experience talking here. In hot weather a duck can go rancid on a game belt in a few hours, if not cleaned or chilled.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 11-14-2012 at 12:59 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  7. #57
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Pac NW
    Posts
    3,790

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    Hmm When I go Deer Hunting we let the Deer hang and semi-freeze overnight before heading home, the Deer remains cool and unspoiled for the duration of the trip usually 2 days. If we were to kill one the day we leave and are unable to let nature cool it we have to stop get bags of dry ice. It's a real pain to transport, as a fresh killed animal releases heat from the bones-organ into the meat, trapped in the body cavity, without chilling we can expect it to be rank by 12 hrs, if it is not opened up and cooled completely. I have had a couple of pretty pungent experiences with mulitple types of game animals to consider this fact. I'll keep a cool frozen-chilled deer-duck-quail-dove etc. in my truck way longer than a fresh kill, I'll be able to eat that chilled-frozen bird a lot later than a fresh kill as well, just personal experience talking here. In hot weather a duck can go rancid on a game belt in a few hours, if not cleaned or chilled.
    You even note in your post that its not really "frozen" but is mostly "cooled". Are you saying you hang your deer in a freezer?

    Cooling is different than FREEZING. FREEZING begins the break down of tissue.

    As I stated in my post, fresh shot or COOLED ducks will last longer.

    But if you want to take it up with the forensic pathologists at the FBI, go for it. Guess we don't need scientists, we'll just say "huntemup said so" .

    WRL

  8. #58
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Fall City, WA
    Posts
    4,622

    Default

    Hmm, I have some mixed feelings and I agree with both sides of this argument.

    A duck shot and cleaned immediately is much easier to pluck and tear open the skin. A duck which is shot in the morning and has cooled completely is tough to pluck and skin at the end of the day. When you're running a trial and it's 80 degrees outside with 90% humidity, there isn't an easy answer to keep things to everyones' liking. Fresh shot ducks from the beginning of a hot day look worse than those which have been used 3-4 times training and re-frozen sometimes.

    Hot duck= easy pluck
    Cold duck = no luck

  9. #59
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Pa.
    Posts
    5,317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly Greenwood View Post
    Or say stacking crates of live birds and running the dogs past them on a blind....
    Yep, that's a good one.

    I'm going to be 70 my next birthday and hunted quite a few of those years,,,,,and you know, for the life of me, I cannot recall EVER coming across a stack of bird crates full of birds in any of the fields I have hunted.

    Like I said though, I'm getting old; so maybe I did and I just don't remember

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  10. #60
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Fall City, WA
    Posts
    4,622

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    Yep, that's a good one.

    I'm going to be 70 my next birthday and hunted quite a few of those years,,,,,and you know, for the life of me, I cannot recall EVER coming across a stack of bird crates full of birds in any of the fields I have hunted.

    Like I said though, I'm getting old; so maybe I did and I just don't remember

    john

    Well, not a bird crate exactly but, a pile of birds. I've ran my dog right in front of another person's layout blind with a stack of geese next to it many times. Multiple layout blinds. Sometimes we have our layout blinds up to 30 yards apart. Each person stacks their birds to keep count of limits. Wind during goose set ups is always at your back so they'll land into a headwind coming towards you. Often it's easiest, safest and has the least amount of distraction having the dog in the layout blind at the end of the set-up.

    If I'm on the left string and a person on the far right knocks a bird down and it sails out further right the dog must pass downwind of multiple piles of birds and multiple layouts. It's a 100% true hunting scenario minus the plastic crate and live birds but, scent and birds? yup. It happens. Just have to get out and hunt fields more often.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •