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Thread: Retriever Advisory Committee Rule Change Proposals

  1. #1
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Default Retriever Advisory Committee Rule Change Proposals

    The Retriever Advisory Subcommittee on Rules Report for 2012

    CONCERN
    We are continuing to experience confusion as to the interpretation of the rule defining the difference between an Amateur handler and a Professional handler.
    DISCUSSION
    Over the past years there have been a number of enterprising individuals who have used their skills in various ways which has allowed them to produce some income from the sport of Retriever Field Trials. Many of these efforts have gone a long way in educating amateur trainers in methods of training their dogs for field trials. The subcommittee feels that people partaking in these educational tools should not be considered professionals; therefore, writing books, making videos and taking part in seminars would not classify a person as a professional. The committee believes that the clearest line that can be drawn between the amateur and the professional is the real life handling of a dog for compensation.
    That being said, we recognize that someone who instructs an individual on the handling and training of their dog(s), and is compensated for that instruction, is acting as a professional.
    Proposal No. 1
    Under STANDING RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE RETRIEVER ADVISORY COMMITTEE page 36
    Under 3. Amateur Definition (a.) after the words “the trial in question has not” delete (a) in its entirety and insert the following:
    “received compensation from the direct training of a dog for hunting, hunting tests or field trials and/or the handling of a dog in the same, and/or the regular and systematic personal instruction of other individuals regarding the above pursuits at any level.”
    Compensation as provided above is defined as money, goods or services to a person or any member of their household.
    Insert the following paragraphs for clarification:
    “Any person participating in an occasional organized seminar or workshop to improve the training and handling of field trial, hunting test or hunting dogs will be exempt from the above provisions as will a person who receives payment for providing educational material, (such as books, videos, etc.), to the public on the training and handling of field trial, hunting test or hunting dogs will not be considered a Professional.”
    So that 3 (a.) in its entirety will now read:
    3. Amateur Definition: The following definitions and standards should be followed in determining the status of any person to be an Amateur:
    (a.) For purposes of eligibility to judge under Section 3 of Chapter 14 of the Rules for Retriever trials, a person shall be considered an Amateur who, during the period of two years preceding the trial in question, has not received compensation from the direct training of
    a dog for hunting, hunting tests or field trials and/or the handling of a dog in the same, and/or the regular and systematic personal instruction of other individuals regarding the above pursuits at any level.

    Compensation as provided above is defined as money, goods or services to a person or any member of their household.
    Any person participating in an occasional organized seminar or workshop to improve the training and handling of field trial, hunting test or hunting dogs will be exempt from the above provisions as will a person who receives payment for providing educational material, (such as books, videos, etc.), to the public on the training and handling of field trial, hunting test or hunting dogs will not be considered a Professional.
    Proposal No. 2
    CONCERN
    In recent years uncertainty has arisen over amateur status of persons who are living with a professional as family members or who have a virtual spousal relationship with a professional although the are not legally married. Also, some individuals have expressed concern that their very close friendship with a professional might invalidate their amateur status under the present rule.
    The subcommittee thus believes that a more definitive description of the family and other relationships which cause the loss of amateur status is needed.
    Under 3. (c.) after the words “No person shall be entitled to status as an Amateur” delete the completion of the sentence and insert “who is residing with a professional as part of his or her immediate family or who has an ongoing intimate personal relationship with a professional beyond that of a friend or client.”
    So that paragraph (c.) in its entirety will read:
    “No person shall be entitled to status as an Amateur who is residing with a professional as part of his or her immediate family or who has an ongoing intimate personal relationship with a professional beyond that of a friend or client.”
    The time periods for any disqualification from Amateur status
    under this section shall be the same as those fixed by paragraphs
    (a.) and (b.) above.”

    CONCERN
    The effect of a field Trial Committee refusing an entry in the Amateur stake.
    DISCUSSION
    In order to clarify a Field Trial Committee’s position in declining an entry in the Amateur stake, (where there is no protest), but because the Field Trial Committee feels the individual lacks Amateur status, we felt some explanatory language was necessary.

  2. #2
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    RE PROPOSAL 4

    SEE MY REPLY POSTED TODAY REJECTING THIS RAC PROPOSAL
    IN THE RAC THREAD ABOUT OUTLAWING LAYOUT BLINDS.

    W. D. Connor

  3. #3
    Senior Member Doug Main's Avatar
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    Is it just me, or does anyone else think that changes proposed in Proposal #1 actually INCREASE the confusion between Amateur and Professional.

    How much "regular and systematic personal instruction" is too much? Does providing services as a "bird boy" in exchange for personal instruction on running blinds or helping a newbie train their dog count?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Main View Post
    Is it just me, or does anyone else think that changes proposed in Proposal #1 actually INCREASE the confusion between Amateur and Professional.

    How much "regular and systematic personal instruction" is too much? Does providing services as a "bird boy" in exchange for personal instruction on running blinds or helping a newbie train their dog count?
    Or, how occasional is too occasional. I agree with clarification but the clarification provided just provides a greater confusion.
    David Didier, GA

  5. #5
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granddaddy View Post
    Or, how occasional is too occasional. I agree with clarification but the clarification provided just provides a greater confusion.
    the RAC has been tinkering with the rule/definition for well over 20 years and it seems that each revision merely creates more confusion.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Wow You got to be out of a "intimate personal relationship" with a pro for 2 years before you can be considered an Amateur, wonder if the time goes down if you were to burn the house and kennels down, or get a restraining order? Divorce Court is quicker than that LOL
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

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    Why change the rules to accommodate a small minority? In the end they are making it harder and harder for the true blue amateurs to play. Someone that has the time to produce videos, seminars ect, is that a true amateur?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Kyle B's Avatar
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    #2 could be named the "Amateurs can't have sex with Pro's" rule. Or if you took the literal term of "Ongoing", you could have sex once but twice would make you a pro.

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    After decades of trying to define the Amateur maybe it would be better to define the professional.

    A person will be considered a professional for the purpose of AKC Retriever FTs when:........

    Possible criteria: X % of their total income is derived from the training, handling or sale of retrievers(over 6months old/ FT eligible).
    $ X have been recieved in the calander year from the training, handling or sale of retrievers(over 6 months).


    Tim
    Last edited by Tim Carrion; 11-14-2012 at 01:32 PM.
    You order a Lab; ask a Golden; but negotiate with a Chesapeake!

  10. #10
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle B View Post
    you could have sex once but twice would make you a pro.
    hehehe...one night stand and you're still an amateur, 2 or more and you're a pro, but who is going to be the score keeper...

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