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Thread: How far off the line?

  1. #1
    Junior Member kirkball's Avatar
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    Default How far off the line?

    My dog has a JH title. I am wanting to run seasoned in HRC when I feel she and I am ready. How far off the line is acceptable on a blind? In terms of feet/yards.

    Thanks

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    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Try to teach yourself and your dog to challenge the blind. Save you alot of trouble later. So stay as close to the line as you can and show the judge you are able to. IMHO
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    Senior Member Dos Patos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    Try to teach yourself and your dog to challenge the blind. Save you alot of trouble later. So stay as close to the line as you can and show the judge you are able to. IMHO
    X2,Challenge the blind!
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    Senior Member John Lash's Avatar
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    Good answers for when your dog is running blinds well.

    In the beginning stages let the dog "roll." Get your dog running with confidence, not running and expecting to be stopped. Let it get pretty far offline then stop and cast. Then let the dog carry that cast even when it crosses the "line."
    John Lash

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    Senior Member MikeBoley's Avatar
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    If you are asking this question you are no where near being ready to run blinds in a test.
    'I make my practices real hard because if a player is a quitter, I want him to quit in practice, not in a game.' - Bear Bryant / Alabama

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    Senior Member Richard McCullough's Avatar
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    I take it you have viewed a couple Seasoned tests?

    I guess the question need to be asked are you running cold blinds? I assume you are or just started

    Here is what I did when I started to run blinds with my pup. All his "blinds" were with white bumpers. The T work helped with this also. When I went to lining drills I would not let him get more than 5-6 foot off line. He quickly started to take the line. When I transitioned to cold blinds his lines from the get go are pretty good. I still do or try not to let him get get to far off line.

    But to answer your question, that is up to the judges on what they will allow. Work with your pup and get better lines.
    I am still pretty new at this game and have allot more to learn.
    Again if your blinds are that ugly (I assume they are by your question) Then church them up before you enter. Having your young pup run a nice blind in a test will get you a compliment from the judges.
    Good luck
    Last edited by Richard McCullough; 11-20-2012 at 06:45 AM.
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    I ask the same question several times as I am new to the hunt test game. I do not believe an answer can be given in feet or yards. Many times you will be able to see a coridor that the judges are expecting the dogs to stay in. Stand back and take a look after the instructions many times it is easy to see others not so much.

    Some trainers us there index and little fingers with a bent elbow to give them a coridor. Have fun!

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    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkball View Post
    My dog has a JH title. I am wanting to run seasoned in HRC when I feel she and I am ready. How far off the line is acceptable on a blind? In terms of feet/yards.

    Thanks

    Everybody has some great points so far. I really like what John Lash wrote.

    DO NOT fall into the trap of trying to run your dog to suit what is "acceptable" or "passing" to a set of judges. You will need to maintain balance as you train a handling dog. Like John wrote, your initial goal is to get the dog to confidently run blinds, stopping and taking some generalized casts when commanded. But the goal is lots of go, lots of success, and lots of repetition of those things. Too much stopping and casting can erode confidence.

    If you choose to run your dog in an intermediate level hunt test, you should KNOW if he/she is ready or not. If you don't KNOW....then he/she is probably not ready. If you choose to run your dog in a hunt test before you KNOW the dog is ready, that's OK. There's no "right" or "wrong".

    Have fun....enjoy your dog.

    If you get a chance, and you intend to run a good bit of hunt tests, I'd strongly advise you attend a judges' clinic or seminar. They are of value for any and all folks that run hunt tests, whether you do or don't ever intend to judge.

    Chris
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkball View Post
    My dog has a JH title. I am wanting to run seasoned in HRC when I feel she and I am ready. How far off the line is acceptable on a blind? In terms of feet/yards.

    Thanks
    In order to be as helpful as possible I would compartmentalize my response to your very good question. First, before directly addressing "how far off line" is acceptable, I lend my agreement to the developmental needs of your dog. As you advance from level to level/class to class, your dog deserves a sound education. I strongly urge you to approach this process with the idea of preparing her for the next higher level, so that she is running with competence on finished/master-level work before entering and running seasoned/senior class events. To do as far too many trainer/handlers do - enter as soon as it looks like a dog may be able to do the work at a given level - is to ask them to perform calculus with only basic math skills. Effectively, that means your dog is most apt to be working at the outer edege of her ability during tests, and that is a situation where bad habits are formed in the blink of an eye far too often. By somewhat over-preparing, your dog has not only a better chance of success at the test, but also a better chance of not forming some habit of failure through inadequate skills.

    The second part is the focus of your question. Ted Shih has a good thread going on challenging the blind. It's a good read, and will provide some insight that will help with this. Each blind has a theoretical corridor; an allowable amount of space in which to handle. Each judge will see that differently, and judge it differently. But it will usually be determined by the factors in the route, and how earnestly a dog/handler team is trying to negotiate them, rather than cleverly avoid them! Banana lines usually are rewarded by not being called back. How big can you count on that corridor being? There is no set measurement.

    Learn to read blinds for the content of their route; the factors that make them challenging. Sometimes it may be no more than a crossing wind. Sometimes there will be more teeth in a blind than the judges realized before turning the field of dogs loose to run it, especially in a stake like seasoned. Carefully prepare your dog to handle accurately, and to do so at increasing distances. Why distance when you know seasoned blinds will be very short? Because it's an advantage you can give your dog. Distance universally erodes control, and exponentially increases the effects of factors. If your dog handles competently on challenging routes at 250 yards, for exmple, how much more competently will he handle on blinds under 100 yards?

    Sorry my reply doesn't have a set formula. But as you run more and more, and train more and more, you'll see fewer solutions to training quandaries have set answers. Good luck.

    Evan
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    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Hold up a blade of grass. If you're off that line, you risk failing. Spend more time training, less time running tests....

    /Paul
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