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Thread: Oh POTUS regs, and all. I have an assignment for you.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Default Oh POTUS regs, and all. I have an assignment for you.

    Oh POTUS regs, and all. I have an assignment for you.

    I would like you to think about and answer this question.
    “Why do we “Nation Build”?”
    The “we” is The United States of America.

    And before we start,
    Franco, I know….. Really I do know….. I know what your about to type. I know you know that I know that you know the election is over. And everyone knows the policy of the party you so proudly champion.
    We know.
    This is not a party question. It is a policy and if anything a philosophy question. Please pretend your speaking to a space alien or foreign exchange student.

    Why do we Nation Build?
    Go as deep back as you like. When did it start? What did we do? The why behind it.

    I have a ruff draft of my answer rolling round in my head. I’ll firm it up on the morrow still hunting for white tail deer with my Dad and Brother.
    Paper and desks are for wimps.
    Give it some thought and tell us what you think.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  2. #2
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    I have thought about this quite a bit. I don't understand why we still have military installations in countries that the war has been over for 50 plus years. I don't know about the nation building thing, but I believe that all the bases we have in all of these countries, is the most wasteful spending I have ever seen. If a country wants help and they ask us, then we should go help. If they don't ask, we are not in their country. Take care of our own country and let them fend for themselves. we should not be the babysitters to the world. those countries don't send us billions of dollars in foreign aid when we have a natural disaster, so why should we send them billions of dollars in foreign aid. Turn about is fair play.

  3. #3
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    for some archaic reason We (as a country) used to do it under the banner of spreading democracy throughout the world, and maybe at one time that was all good....militarily speaking we did it so we could stick our bases in far away places all under the guise of defeating the threat of the 60's ..Communism....

    Unfortunately IMO we tried to build a "bridge too far"...we try to nation build in countries that might have been better off at the hands of benevolent dictators...it is no longer our destiny to be the keeper of the free world,especially when our own model is very dysfunctional..I know its hard to sit on the sidelines while people are being slaughtered at the hands of their own countrymen, but the US can no longer be the policeman of the world

    I wish the solution were as easy as voila lets bring all the troops home and lets suspend all foreign aide, but its not that simple..its going to take the American public to send the right group of legislators to stop the funding..a President alone cant do it..Congress holds the checkbook, once the voting public holds the politicians feet to the fire is the only way it will change
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    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    Oh POTUS regs, and all. I have an assignment for you.

    I would like you to think about and answer this question.
    “Why do we “Nation Build”?”
    The “we” is The United States of America.

    And before we start,
    Franco, I know….. Really I do know….. I know what your about to type. I know you know that I know that you know the election is over. And everyone knows the policy of the party you so proudly champion.
    We know.
    This is not a party question. It is a policy and if anything a philosophy question. Please pretend your speaking to a space alien or foreign exchange student.

    Why do we Nation Build?
    Go as deep back as you like. When did it start? What did we do? The why behind it.

    I have a ruff draft of my answer rolling round in my head. I’ll firm it up on the morrow still hunting for white tail deer with my Dad and Brother.
    Paper and desks are for wimps.
    Give it some thought and tell us what you think.
    There is no answer beyond politics;

    RK hit the nail on the head with a big part of it. There is billions to be made by companies empolyed to nation build and their lobby is strong. It return of financial support, our politicians award huge contracts to corporations, including Defense contractors, in an attempt in making more of the world like us. It has worked in most parts of the world except in the mideast. And, at a different time in our history when the world wasn't fighting the new crusade.

    The other part of the equation is our own national insecurities. For some reason beyond my comprehension, we have a need to make the rest of the world like us. Disaster aide is one thing, that is a responsibilty of wealtheir nations. But, the idea that we have to remake nations in our own image, in the 21st Century is not only costly but folly.


    "Liberty will not descend to a people, a people must raise themselves to liberty; it is a blessing that must be earned before it can be enjoyed." – Charles Caleb Colton
    Last edited by Franco; 11-22-2012 at 08:32 AM.
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Golddogs's Avatar
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    The US's big push to go global began after WW1 and 2 and the rapid declinre of the British empire and the loss of French, German and Spanish controlled territories. To a small extent, it began after the Spanish American War and the loss of the Phillipines to US control.

    With the European countries infrastructure devastated, the door was opened for US fortune 500 companies to go in and pick the bones of these nations, and thus the foothold into what was a pretty closed market.

    The same formula played out in Japan and parts of Asia.

    The Mideast was a bit different. Following WW1, our biggest allies in the region were the Arabs. Many promises were made and big oil was granted a foothold. When Israel was granted nation rights, things became unglued and most of the oil became nationalized and the constant turmoil develped.

    Most of this can be traced back to $$$, and less to the altruistic motives of " Nation Building" In fact, prior to WW1, the US was a very isolationist country, wanting little or nothing to do with the rest of the worlds problems. But after Pearl Harbor and once $$$ was in sight, positions changed.

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    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    There has always been some interest in nation building going back to the revolts of the Spanish colonies in Latin America. There was some interest in reestablishing a Jewish homeland in the Middle East as early in the 19 century by American Christians Zionists. Interestedly, one of the proponents of Christian Zionism was a George Bush, a relative of the presidential family.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_...cal_scholar%29

    I think nation building began in earnest after the defeat of Spain in the Spanish American War. Just reading about the US occupation of the Philippines. Cuba was another example. American gunboat diplomacy came into its own with the establishment of Panama, when Colombia refused to give us rights to dig the canal. In the 20's and 30's there was constant American intervention in the Banana Republics.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 11-22-2012 at 02:22 PM.
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    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    I agree with RK! I think this is the 2nd time in history! It is all based on the income of big oil and the defense industry. At one time it was disguised as "saving the world from communism", but underneath all the rhetoric, I think Phil Ochs came close to having it right! Be sure to listen to the last verse.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaTbI...ature=fvwberel
    Last edited by 2tall; 11-22-2012 at 02:58 PM.
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    Senior Member Duck Blind's Avatar
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    If we don't our enemies will. I have done quite a bit of "nation building" type work in Haiti. Venezuela and Cuba are just waiting for us to stop our work there. If we do, they'll be in like Flynn. Better us than them, right? Our southern maritime boundaries are as critical as a our territorial boundaries - specifically from a drug interdiction and immigration policy standpoint.
    Last edited by Duck Blind; 11-22-2012 at 03:44 PM.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Golddogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    In the 20's and 30's there was constant American intervention in the Banana Republics.
    Boy I hate it when my memory slips. I forgot about US Foods role in central America and Cuba. Big business and big money played a huge role in establlishing US friendly dictators in that region.
    Never trust a dog to watch your food!

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