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Definition of style

14K views 53 replies 34 participants last post by  RookieTrainer 
#1 ·
Is a high power dog running around out of control stylish? Can a dog with less athletic ability be stylish? I would like to hear what you guys think.
 
#33 ·
I'm with you there, Scott. Over quite a few years the terms "Style" and "Momentum" have been used interchabably, including uses to eliminate dogs from tests & trials. Lack of style is something the AKC rules allow a judge to penalize a dog for, up to and including elimination. Below is a quote from AKC Field Trials - One Judges Perspective, by John Cavanaugh and Mitch Patterson - two of the most solid sources on such topics. This is page 5



I get the impression we're pretty close on our overall interpretation.

Evan
 
#38 ·
....and where did John get this? Right out of the FT rulebook, which is a pretty solid source also.

(7) Style is apparent in every movement of a dog and throughout his entire performance at trials, for example: by the gaiety of his manner in approaching the line, by his alertness on-line, by his eagerness and speed on retrieves, by his water-entry, by his pick-up of birds and by his return with them. Style makes for a pleasing performance; together with ability to mark, they constitute the most important factors for placings in Derby Stakes.
In all stakes, in respect to “style,’’ a desired performance includes: (a) an alert and obedient attitude, (b) a fast-determined departure, both on land and into the water, (c) an aggressive search for the “fall,’’ (d) a prompt pick-up, and (e) a reasonably fast return. Dogs may be credited for outstanding and brilliant exhibitions of style, or they may be penalized for deficiencies in style — the severity of the penalty ranging from a minor demerit, to elimination from the..........
 
#34 ·
Hey Scott...here is what style LOOKS like!

BTW...this is Wrangler :)





.
 
#36 ·
#42 ·
Kevin! It's good to see that name! I hope you and your family are well!

Evan
 
#44 ·
Everybody seems to have the right idea!! So then why are judges giving dogs who are running with bad attitudes, lack of desire to be there blue ribbons who title FC and AFC?? Scared to drop them....your friends...blame it on your co judge?? WHY??
 
#53 · (Edited)
Randy

First, I haven't seen the problems you apparently have. Both Terry and I talked about the dogs that we recently judged at Swamp Dog, which you attended and neither of us remembered any style issues.

Are there piggy dogs? Sure, but far fewer than 10 years ago - and those I have seen recently are not very competitive.

Second, I will admit that many moons ago when I began judging, I placed a dog whose style on blinds was marginal. Since then, I have denied placement to dogs with poor style. I have also set up blinds that were too hard and cut some dogs I wish I had not. I think it's all part of your education as a judge.

Third, I think I need to see more than one instance of poor style before I drop. For example, a dog might be nervous about running tight to a gun, but then pick up speed. Or it might be uptight on a short blind, but fine on the long blind. I have dropped dogs that slinked into the water, but poor style was compounded by multiple casts and refusals. So the drop was due to more than poor style.

Fourth, as for carrying your friends - that is an issue of personal integrity unique to each individual. I have dropped good friends, and people I couldn't stand. I have placed friends and people I couldn't stand too. Because the mission is to award the best dogs for a given weekend - regardless of their owners, handlers, or past record
 
#47 ·
I only asked because in my tailgate and gallery discussions I have only had one person admit to losing or dropping a dog for style. He didn't train the dog initially but was rehabbing it. I think judging style is both good for the breeds and discourages heavy handed training practices. I am encouraged that it is more widespread than I imagined.
 
#48 ·
Is "style" like "beauty"... in the eye of the beholder? Or like pornography... can't define it but know it when we see it.

To me the best definition of style is "a thrill to watch". Intensity. When you get goosebumps watching an animal do what it was bred to do... you're watching style.
 
#50 ·
Sorry I missed this post. I have no opinion to offer on the porn metaphor, but I really like your second paragraph. That's a description that anyone who has seen a stylish dog can relate to. I think that's what the passage previously quoted from the rule book defines.

Evan
 
#49 ·
I guess every region wants to think the group of dogs is better than others. That said of the TRIALS I have attended or judged I have seen less than can be counted on one hand for a good number of years. IMHO if the dogs has ears back, tail tucked is slinky and so on is most likely wont finish a trial. I have made note on the judges sheets but the dog(s) have never been in contention. If the dog acts like that it is most likely a unpleasent training day. I like th dogs that while on the way bay to the line look out in the field for the next mark, sit with ears up when they lock in and wag the tail. A dog that jumps nicely into the water whle returning with the last water mark is nice as well. As for the porn metaphor I like to watch the midget with a flaming goat with a hermaphrodite in a tub of tapioca pudding.
 
#54 ·
Interesting and illuminating discussion.

My dog and his idiot owner/handler/trainer just wish that style = speed and that it got judged the same way WD-40 gets used. You know, if a little bit is good a whole lot is better, even if it is not aimed very well.

Signed,
Wishing I had known then what I know now to deal with my track star
 
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